AlpineK Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I've always felt that there has been an antisemitic undercurrent on this board. I don't know about antisemitic, but I'm against whatever you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Arafat was a unifying symbol for the Palestinian cause, much revered by his own people and giving them hope during difficult times. The Oslo Accords were not only Arafat's to accept or reject; to state this is to oversimplify. There were many who favored, many who rejected. *One* of the biggest issues with the accords was the cantonization of what would have been Palestine. Let's take an example: There are people on this board who have antipathy towards me (more when Trask etal were around). Would they have accepted a peace deal with me that would have allowed me to walk through their living-room and use their bathroom whenever I wanted? Of course not. Well the Oslo Accords allowed for many strategic parts of Palestininan territory to remain in Israeli control, with unfettered access. This was finally decided as unacceptable. I remember some other problems with it too. Remember that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced when Israel was created. These displaced are still displaced, and many remember their old homes. It's a difficult difficult situation, and the inflammatory responses by Sharon have not helped. My condolences go out to Arafat and his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double_E Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 arafat was a terrorist, plain and simple. true, but so is Ariel Sharon. not to mention Dubya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjd Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Who's Arafat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 ...to used diplomacy to bring peace in the Middle East. You can encourage democratic elections to select Arafat's successor(s). You can show even handed and objective diplomacy and restore the US as a positive force for peace in the region, instead of a rubber stamp for the Israeli leadership. You can do all this without sending in 50,000 troops. This is a huge opportunity. Don't squander it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 arafat was a terrorist, plain and simple. true, but so is Ariel Sharon. not to mention Dubya. last week you guys were calling him hitler, now he's a terrorist? geez, make up your mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 arafat was a terrorist, plain and simple. the world is a better place without him. Menachim Begin was a terrorist [one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist] too. Heck, one of my grandfather's cousins was blowing up British trains before Israel became a nation. I am disappointed that Arafat couldn't have done more, but he was in a really awkward position. Especially lately with Sharon being a hardass. It reminds me of a high school debate back in 1994 where my teacher made me play the role of Arafat (she did that to challenge me, knowing that because of my upbringing, I was (and still am, but not as much) biased toward Israel). Anyway, my stance was that it was impossible to control all of my people, and furthermore, if I did try to do so, I'd get assassinated by my own people, just like Anwar Sadat. Chilling, considering Yitzak Rabin was gunned down by a fellow Israeli in 1995. So my guess is Arafat did what he did to keep his people loving him while making small efforts toward peace, because he felt that making large efforts would have resulted in his own people demonizing him and perhaps even killing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 It's too bad that people are greedy. Greedy for their religion, greedy for space. Greed for any cause just leads to bad things. Some religions in the Middle East have a lot of this kind of greed. They don't see it as greed because it is disguised by religion. The passing of this leader is a good opportunity for one of them to give it up. That probably won't happen. There is a lot of this same kind of greed growing here in the States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 A minority of ultra-orthodox jews in Isreal believe that God gave all of Palastine to the Jews. It's pretty hard to compromise with people like that. The ruling coalition has to keep this crazy minority happy if it is to continue to rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 taken in another context A minority of ultra-orthodox christians in the United States believe that God gave all of the moral values to the Republicans. It's pretty hard to compromise with people like that. The ruling coalition has to keep this minority happy if it is to continue to rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 He could have had nearly everything he claimed to have been fighting for when Clinton tabled the final deal, yet Arafat refused and chose to renew an armed conflict against a superior force. Typical misstatement from our brothoer JayB, rewriting history in the quick tap of a couple keys. It is probably closer to the truth to say that Netanyahu was the single person most responsible for undermining the peace process. (Though this statement, too, is at best an oversimplification and I agree that Arafat's passing may now provide an opportunity for the parties to get back on track.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Remember that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced when Israel was created. These displaced are still displaced, and many remember their old homes. It's a difficult difficult situation, and the inflammatory responses by Sharon have not helped. My condolences go out to Arafat and his family. Let's remember that no palestiniens were forceably displaced when Israel was created. Great numbers left in protest thinking their Arab brothers would drive the Israelis out and they could return. They were the ones to first take the path of violence. Three wars later (none started by the Israelis) the situation has not changed much. The situation is very complex, and the Israel of today is not helping the situation at all. That doesn't mean, however, that the other guys are innocents being exploited. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Palestinians and Arabs had trid a peaceful solution with Israel over 50 years ago, but one thing is for sure: Arafat has not helped the situation. He's a terrorist and he's better off dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted November 14, 2004 Author Share Posted November 14, 2004 I was reading the paper today and there was a story about Barghouti possibly running for Palestinian president. Here is another story of the same. Strange situation. The guy is serving a long sentence in an Israeli jail for terrorism crimes. If he runs and wins, will Israel release him? Should they release him? If they release him it might go a long way toward peace. Or, he may just go about being a free terrorist again if he's released. If they don't release him, it may worsen the antinomy between the two sides. Because of this trilemma, if he does run, I predict he'll win because that's my view of how the Palestinians think. Then again, he might well turn out to be the best candidate, despite his murderous past. Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Let's remember that no palestiniens were forceably displaced when Israel was created. Great numbers left in protest thinking their Arab brothers would drive the Israelis out and they could return. They were the ones to first take the path of violence. Three wars later (none started by the Israelis) the situation has not changed much. They weren't forcibly displace; 75-80% of the Palestinian population was refused reentry to Israel after fleeing war. To me the difference is small. Amusingly Bush is now pursuing a UN sanctioned strategy (the original 1947 mandate sanctioned 2 states - 1 jewish, 1 arab) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_Pi Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Hello capitalist! I disagree, my contacts from the international library believe he may still be alive. They advised me he will probably show up in Iraq directing the insurgentcy, but think Arafat is in North Korea. Thank you for allow me to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Let's remember that no palestiniens were forceably displaced when Israel was created. Great numbers left in protest thinking their Arab brothers would drive the Israelis out and they could return. They were the ones to first take the path of violence. Three wars later (none started by the Israelis) the situation has not changed much. They weren't forcibly displace; 75-80% of the Palestinian population was refused reentry to Israel after fleeing war. To me the difference is small. Amusingly Bush is now pursuing a UN sanctioned strategy (the original 1947 mandate sanctioned 2 states - 1 jewish, 1 arab) You are right, but then again, I would give second thought to giving re-entry to a bunch of people who left then fought along side the countries that immediately went to war with my country. It is interesting, as you point out, that Bush wants anything to do with a UN plan, but i guess I have seen stranger things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Palestine gives me goosebumps... oh wait that's RL Stine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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