lost_arrow Posted October 27, 2004 Posted October 27, 2004 hadn't been to vantage in a while and headed out this past weekend to clip some bolts. i only went to the riverviewpark and corn wall areas - but at both of those areas someone had written the names of the areas on the walls with green chalk and labeled the grade of each route at the base of that route. i've seen this in south america (actually with spray paint there) but this was just ridiculous. anyone know anything about this? it didnt take any energy to wash the green chalk off with a little water...i know that place is already mass bolted and cleaned, but come on? Quote
catbirdseat Posted October 27, 2004 Posted October 27, 2004 It's a slippery slope. Let's not go the Dishman route. Quote
kurthicks Posted October 27, 2004 Posted October 27, 2004 i've seen the same thing. I did see one worth noting in the Sunshine Wall area last weekend. it was a sport route that said "no anchor" at the top. that could have ruined someone's day. Quote
JosephH Posted October 27, 2004 Posted October 27, 2004 This is another example of folks wanting to simply replicate their gym experience outdoors, eliminate risk, and insure success (and a limit version of it at best). One aspect of doing FA's that never really gets discussed much is that to do them one has to be self-responsible and capable of mapping their abilities to rock with no external assistance. This really extends beyond FA's in that you should strive to be able to walk up to a rock and have a rough idea whether your abilities are in the ball park to climb it. I mostly see people these days taking their "gym rating" and translating that to an outdoor area's ratings and then exclusively using guidebooks and ratings to decide what to climb. I'd very much recommend the next time you go to a new area use the guidebook to get you there and understand the layout, but then leave it behind and just walk the routes and do some. Will you always choose right? Will you always get up everything you choose? No, but you'll begin the process of connecting what you know about your abilities with what you see when you look at the rock. Hell, you might even epic, but that ability to find your own way on rock relative to (or pushing) your abilities without beta is a highly desirable thing to acquire. Quote
Illini Posted October 27, 2004 Posted October 27, 2004 I have seen the same thing on sport climbs in the Squamish area, only the writing was in permanent marker. I was quite suprised. The small area only had about 5 routes the easiest of which was 5.10c and the next easiest being 5.11a. Its kind of sad that some one felt the need to label the routes when any dumb could count off the bolt lines from the guide book. Quote
catbirdseat Posted October 27, 2004 Posted October 27, 2004 i've seen the same thing. I did see one worth noting in the Sunshine Wall area last weekend. it was a sport route that said "no anchor" at the top. that could have ruined someone's day. There was a sport route someone told me about where there was easy access to the anchors from the trail and some bastard stole the chains and hangars. Few of the trad routes have anchors, you have to build your own. But sport climbers obviously aren't prepared to do that. Quote
pope Posted November 21, 2004 Posted November 21, 2004 Now let's hear one of the sport climbers on this BB come out and defend yet another ethically dubious practice one encounters at Vantage. Come on out, step up to the plate and tell us why it is that we need to follow the Euros. Tell us why our climbing standards are slipping and how we can't hope to "compete" with the trend setters on the other side of the Atlantic if we don't follow lock-step. Fucking pathetic. Dwayner the prophet. I wouldn't be disappointed to see the rocks of Vantage turned into turkey grit. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted November 21, 2004 Posted November 21, 2004 I mostly see people these days taking their "gym rating" and translating that to an outdoor area's ratings and then exclusively using guidebooks and ratings to decide what to climb. I'd very much recommend the next time you go to a new area use the guidebook to get you there and understand the layout, but then leave it behind and just walk the routes and do some. Will you always choose right? Will you always get up everything you choose? No, but you'll begin the process of connecting what you know about your abilities with what you see when you look at the rock. Hell, you might even epic, but that ability to find your own way on rock relative to (or pushing) your abilities without beta is a highly desirable thing to acquire. Sheesh. Most people bring along guidebooks and use them as you describe because it makes sense to do so. Most people don't want to spend the time to drive to their destination crag in order to blindly flounder up some unenjoyable chosspile, aborted 5.15 project, or merely mediocre grovelfest. Using the guidebook as a reference allows people to make informed decisions about what they are climbing, and to find something within their ability to climb. The idea that this is somehow detrimental to the climbing experience seems backwards, wrong, and stupidly puritanical. As for the green chalk route names and ratings, sure, it sounds kind of stupid, especially given the apparently obvious route layout. At least it was in chalk, though, and not paint. And DFA has encountered similar use of chalk or black charcoal at Maple Canyon, which is quite helpful at crags with many new routes that are not in the book or with routes that have different starts but share anchors or whatever. It helps spread the word, and when the word is spread, the chalk or charcoal can easily be brushed off. Not the end of the world! Like any other practice, moderation and forethought go a long way. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted November 21, 2004 Posted November 21, 2004 Fucking pathetic. Dwayner the prophet. I wouldn't be disappointed to see the rocks of Vantage turned into turkey grit. Fight chalk with chipping? Interesting proposition. Quote
Distel32 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 was the crag you saw the writing at in squam the forgotten wall at cheak? the one right out of the parking lot?? Most of those were written because a new guidebook hadn't come out yet and there were a bunch of new routes. Plus the stuff is coming off anyway, and you really have to look closely to notice. I'm no promoting it, but I'm not going to yell at somebody for being tasteful about it and trying to help other people out. Quote
pope Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 was the crag you saw the writing at in squam the forgotten wall at cheak? the one right out of the parking lot?? Most of those were written because a new guidebook hadn't come out yet and there were a bunch of new routes. Plus the stuff is coming off anyway, and you really have to look closely to notice. I'm no promoting it, but I'm not going to yell at somebody for being tasteful about it and trying to help other people out. Jesus, what is the matter with you guys? For how man generations have climbers found satisfaction, challenge and adventure in the hills and on our walls without resorting to this? And now we're in the information age. Are you telling me the info can't be posted on a website? Are you telling me the info can't be distributed through inexpensive xeros copies? "...I'm not going to yell at somebody..." You'd better do everything in your power to dissuade people from behaving this way. If you don't recognize this as the biggest threat to your access then you're frickin' blind. Quote
Distel32 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 ever been to cheak? I'm not saying it is the way to go, and I'm not going to get into a pedantic argument with ya, sorry to dissapoint Quote
pope Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 ever been to cheak? I'm not saying it is the way to go, and I'm not going to get into a pedantic argument with ya, sorry to dissapoint You're not saying it's the way to go....I think you're a little disgusted, but you've got a cool, hipster's attitude of tolerance that says, "It's all good. There's room for everybody." What are you going to say when these guys get you kicked out of your favorite crag? Quote
Distel32 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 I'll be in mongolia, and I'll say "ted mash tenig baina" Quote
Dru Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 I think there are more serious issues at the Forgotten Wall than route names written in marker pen which only lasts a few months anyway Specifically hold chipping and bolted cracks You can join the debate ad nauseum at squamishclimbing.com aka cheakamuschipping.com Quote
RuMR Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 That forgotten wall is basically an atrocity...I think Pet wall is the way to go for bolted sport climbing...FW is just a complete freakin' joke... I love the new guide (its well written, FWIW though)...its got all of these hidden little jokes...they're like these little skulls that are supposed to indicate a "scary" route...and they are next to some routes at FW! Quote
Distel32 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 the only reason I could think that there are some at forgotten is because of the loose rock, definitely not run out however I do like a couple of the routes Quote
RuMR Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 yah...the climbing is basically good... just waaaaay too many bolts... Quote
texplorer Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 I'll be in mongolia, and I'll say "ted mash tenig baina" Ha Ha Ha, . . your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me Distal. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 I'll be in mongolia, and I'll say "ted mash tenig baina" Ha Ha Ha, . . your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me Distal. He's still proximal at this point, isn't he? Quote
JETT Posted December 12, 2004 Posted December 12, 2004 TAKE A PICTURE, MARK THE ROUTE AND POST IT HERE OR ON THE BOARD AT THE PARKING LOT. I MEAN, LOOK AT ALL THE ROUTES ON THE BATHROOM BOULDER, THEIR NOT MARKED IN GREEN CHALK. JUST BLACK ASH. Quote
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