catbirdseat Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 There were a large number of editorials published in Today's Seattle Times in response to the Time's endorsement of John Kerry for president on August 27. The following was one of them: We are at war in Iraq, and you endorse the aging, anti-war celebrity, John Kerry. We baby boomers just can't grow up; we can't seem to let it go. I am 53 years old. I remember the '60's and I remember that oppostion to the war was a fad, an intellectual pet rock. Millions of us, and almost all of use in Seattle adopted the fashion of pacifism because it was cool and a good way to get chicks. Now we are so old, we don't even want chicks. But still the editorial board of the Times drags out its bell-bottoms and granny glasses and tells us that "to end the war and stuff you gotta sing loud." And you tell us to vote for the political version of the Nehru jacket, John Kery. Groovy man. --Mark McLemore, Everett My question to you all is, if you were around in the 1960's and opposed the war, was it a fashion statement for you? I was too young to know what was really going on, but I thought the war was stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I was too young to know what was really going on, but I thought the war was stupid. Clueless with baseless opinions - I see you haven't changed much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 I was just being honest. An 8 year old can have an opinion, but it probably wouldn't carry much weight as somone who was eligible for the draft at the time. So I am asking the older climbers here what they think. My opinion ran contrary to that of my parents. Greg you probably just parroted whatever pap your parents fed you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 For what it's worth, I had stone wash jeans and even had baggy pants and tried to dance like MC Hammer but looked more like a skinny Vanilla Ice. That was the 80s. That was the fad du jour back then. I was even known to have once tied Grolsch bottle caps on my shoe laces cos the guys from a lame band called Bros did that and the chicks loved them. Those are fashion statements. I can't imagine a war ever being a fashion statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I wouldn't say that opposition to war is a fad, but it was definitely a defining issue for that generation. We have X-box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Now we are so old, we don't even want chicks. that's liberal faggotspeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinore Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 As one who was coming of age in the late '60s and early '70s and who participated in a number of antiwar activities, I can say that it certainly was NOT a fad for me and many others. Many of us were sincere in our beliefs that the war in Vietnam was evil, and this obligated us to vigorously oppose it. I do understand, however, why opposing the war was perceived as a fad for some people. The cultural upheaval that accompanied the political upheaval was an attraction for some. For others, there was a belief that the cultural "accessories" (for want of a better term) would somehow lead to political changes. I don't know what Mark McLemore did, believed, or felt during that time. A close reading of his letter makes me curious. He says, "I remember that opposition to the war was a fad. . . ." Well, Mr. McLemore, were YOU opposed to the war? What did you do about it? His phrasing makes me wonder whether he actually was not opposed to the war at the time, and instead is commenting on what he regarded in others. ". . .almost all of us in Seattle adopted the fashion of pacifism because it was cool and a good way to get chicks." Again, this is a strangely disembodied way to characterize a highly contentious period in history. Did McLemore adopt the "fashion" of pacifism? If so, he did he get any chicks for his trouble? It has become a cliche to say "If you remember the '60s, you weren't really there." I disagree. I remember them and I was there. The period was fraught with excesses, mistakes, and stupidity, but it was also characterized by hopefulness, idealism, and nobility. Oh, and by the way, we were right about Vietnam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Now we are so old, we don't even want chicks. that's liberal faggotspeak How so? Those words were written by a conservative supporter of George Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 As one who was coming of age in the late '60s and early '70s and who participated in a number of antiwar activities, I can say that it certainly was NOT a fad for me and many others. Many of us were sincere in our beliefs that the war in Vietnam was evil, and this obligated us to vigorously oppose it. And do you recall how you treated returning American soldiers? I was young then, but I remember....and you should be ashamed. Oh, and by the way, we were right about Vietnam. Many would disagree with that boast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Please describe how the Viet Nam war was a good thing Fairweather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Lemme see....We were in Viet Nam to stop the spread of communism. We "lost" the war, Saigon fell, the country did become communist, and we are still a free society. Based on the outcome, that in spite of the fact that Vietnam became a communist country & the U.S.A. is stii a free country, I guess you'd have to say it was a good thing. Problem is that politics, not strategy seem to dictate war. Problem is that our politicians don't realize you can't save your ass and your face at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Talk about fads... the last march (on the RNC) was about a big a fad as you can get... It is just uber cool to be embroiled over some matter or another... whether it be world peace, abortion rights, ect. ect. ad nauseum. I prefer to sit back and watch the show and know that I wont change anything then run around like a chicken with my head off and acheive nothing with the exception of getting laid by a hairry pitted patchouli stenched wombat at some rally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Ya know, that's the same opinion many in Seattle had of the majority of WTO Protestors a few years ago. Just looking for an outlet for angst and/or boredom, not really knowing what the fuck they were protesting or rioting about, other than against authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now we are so old, we don't even want chicks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- that's liberal faggotspeak -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How so? Those words were written by a conservative supporter of George Bush. Okay, so the it's conservative faggotspeak. The point is, no matter what your preference, the freak-factor never stops till you're in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotterdamerung Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I remember being 3 or 4 years old and staring at Newsweek covers with GI's wrapped in belts of 7.62 ammunition. From about that point on it was never in doubt what it was I would become. My biological father once told my mom that "No son of his would ever serve in the military". Guess what you draft dodging waste of airspace? Here's my solemn prayer. "Dear God, please have war, Amen". Hippies from the Vietnam era are a national disgrace. You should feel ashamed of yourselves and your actions during that time. If you had picked up a gun and stood in solidarity with the real men and women of this country maybe we would have set that country straight in no time. You contributed to the deaths of thousands of Americans by prolonging our stay and distracting us from victory. I believe your actions during that time period show your lack of minerals and that your self preservation gene has a LONG YELLOW STREAK at the tip. Whatever, don't even get me started. I got enough on my angst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redoubt Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I remember being 3 or 4 years old and staring at Newsweek covers with GI's wrapped in belts of 7.62 ammunition. From about that point on it was never in doubt what it was I would become. My biological father once told my mom that "No son of his would ever serve in the military". Guess what you draft dodging waste of airspace? Here's my solemn prayer. "Dear God, please have war, Amen". Geez, dude, 3 or 4 years old? I'd suggest that you keep that to yourself if you want anyone to take your opinions as clear, logical, thoughtful and reasoned. You obviously quit thinking at a very young age. Thanks for putting all your previous posts into such clear perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 When he was only 18 months old he picked up his first stick and started waving it around. The rest is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinore Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 As one who was coming of age in the late '60s and early '70s and who participated in a number of antiwar activities, I can say that it certainly was NOT a fad for me and many others. Many of us were sincere in our beliefs that the war in Vietnam was evil, and this obligated us to vigorously oppose it. And do you recall how you treated returning American soldiers? I was young then, but I remember....and you should be ashamed. I have nothing to apologize for how I treated returning soldiers. Many were my friends or my friends' brothers. Two of my friends' brothers did not come back alive. Some came back with their psyches badly damaged. I thought that some of the antiwar protesters I respected most were those who had fought in Vietnam and had the greatest direct perspective about what a travesty that war was. They were inspirations to me and many others. The people who most owe an apology to Vietnam veterans are the ones who sent them there for no good reason and neglected those who made it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I agree with Fairweather that it WAS a disgrace how many antiwar posters treated returning vets. I always thought it was wrong for people to put the American flag on their ass or spit on the vets or whatever. Thing is, though, it was a divisive and confusing period. Just as wrongheaded as anything the "lefties" said - many on the right were saying (just as they are today) that anybody who criticizes an American military effort is committing treason, or that those who criticize American policies "hate America." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I remember being 3 or 4 years old and staring at Newsweek covers with GI's wrapped in belts of 7.62 ammunition. From about that point on it was never in doubt what it was I would become. My biological father once told my mom that "No son of his would ever serve in the military". Guess what you draft dodging waste of airspace? Here's my solemn prayer. "Dear God, please have war, Amen". Hippies from the Vietnam era are a national disgrace. You should feel ashamed of yourselves and your actions during that time. If you had picked up a gun and stood in solidarity with the real men and women of this country maybe we would have set that country straight in no time. You contributed to the deaths of thousands of Americans by prolonging our stay and distracting us from victory. I believe your actions during that time period show your lack of minerals and that your self preservation gene has a LONG YELLOW STREAK at the tip. Whatever, don't even get me started. I got enough on my angst. Dude, you make such moronic comments sometimes. You feel like you can get away with saying anything you please and that your point of view is correct and everyone else is wrong on account of you toting a gun and bleeding the red white and blue. You spend most of your time in a mass circle jerk with a bunch of testosterone laden adolescents and no-one seems willing to criticize you because you’re supposedly some kind of hero. I wish you well and hope you’re safe. Beyond that, try to break free of the cultish thinking and consider that sometimes violence isn’t the answer to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Haven't you been deported yet, fuckwad? G-man CAN say anything he wants...this is America. Go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Haven't you been deported yet, fuckwad? G-man CAN say anything he wants...this is America. Go home. It's funny you should post. I was going to compare you to the GI and suggest that he take a leaf from your book whereby you also promote conservative views but don't necessarily come across as an unstable gun-toting lunatic. I thought better of it though and with your last post you just proved my intuition correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Haven't you been deported yet, fuckwad? G-man CAN say anything he wants...this is America. Go home. It's funny you should post. I was going to compare you to the GI and suggest that he take a leaf from your book whereby you also promote conservative views but don't necessarily come across as an unstable gun-toting lunatic. I thought better of it though and with your last post you just proved my intuition correct Nice to see you back in the mix, you crazy fucking Scot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MervGriffin Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I recall during Gulf-War I (Desert Storm), a bunch of 20-somethings had their dreams come true: a real war to protest just like their heroes in the '60's. "And gee whiz! The clothes and the music were really cool back then but doggone it, we wuz born too late!" Of the many imitative Vietnam-era antics performed was a bunch of these youngsters chanting the classic anti-draft lines, "Hell no, we won't go". The only problem was, in 1991....there was no draft, and there still isn't one..and noone was asking them to go anywhere except to stand up and quit blocking the highway....but I bet these earnest youngin's saw some '60's war protesters doing that in their high school social studies class and it looked really cool! Speaking of hippies and Yippies....this guy REALLY sucked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Remember that scene in Forrest Gump where the flag-shirt-clad hippie jackass guy drags Forrest on stage to give a speech at a rally in DC? Was that supposed to be Abbie Hoffman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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