Thanks alot Ridge & Ashcroft!

[willstrickland]

Nice job letting politics interfere with doing your fucking jobs. Assholes.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/08/09/terror.wrap/index.html

[foraker]

Why do you hate America?

[Dru]

see here for more on how they use the patriot act to target marijuana smugglers.

 

the war on drugs is now part of the war on terror!

[foraker]

i was listening to that story whilst driving back from squish on sunday. this comedian on my xm radio was saying how, in iraq, we should just start bombing them with big burning bales of marijuana. a couple of days and the next thing you hear is 'why can't we all just get along?'

[b-rock]

see here for more on how they use the patriot act to target marijuana smugglers.

 

the war on drugs is now part of the war on terror!

 

It has been since shortly after 911 with all those anti-drug ads saying tht if you smoke herb, you are supporting terrorists. Ummm, ok.

[foraker]

It has been since shortly after 911 with all those anti-drug ads saying tht if you smoke herb, you are supporting terrorists. Ummm, ok.

 

I think the corollary to this should be: if you sell arms to crazies to use against your enemies, the crazies will eventually use them against you.

[iain]

The take-home message here is that every time you smoke up, you are fueling the mid-80's toyota truck market in the mideast. Seriously is that the only vehicle they have over there? Is it something like whenever you see a 2WD toyota truck odds are better that 50% the driver is a lesbian???

[willstrickland]

Patriot Act is a whole 'nother ball of wax, save it for another thread.

 

I am pissed that these jokers compromised an intel source that was paying big dividends in tracking down al Qaeda operatives, in an attempt to justify a politcally motivated raise of the terror alert based on info that was 3 YEARS OLD! (I think I need to raise my run-on sentence alert to code red after that one)

[catbirdseat]

Are you saying that Al Qaeda didn't know that Khan had been arrested? If anyone goes without communication for long enough, they will be presumed to have been arrested. The guys who leaked the information of Khan's identity probably had reason to believe Qaeda was already aware of his capture.

[rbw1966]

Thats not necessarily true. From what i understand, Al Kaito has a number of sleeper cells in south florida waiting to receive a leather glove in the mail before becoming activated and unleashing their assault.

[jjd]

The Embassy Bombings

"As early as December 1993, a team of al Qaeda operatives had begun casing

targets in Nairobi for future attacks. It was led by Ali Mohamed, a former

Egyptian army officer who had moved to the United States in the mid-1980s,

enlisted in the U.S.Army, and became an instructor at Fort Bragg. He had provided

guidance and training to extremists at the Farouq mosque in Brooklyn,

including some who were subsequently convicted in the February 1993 attack

on the World Trade Center. The casing team also included a computer expert

whose write-ups were reviewed by al Qaeda leaders."

 

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch2.pdf Page 68

 

"KSM claims that the earlier bombing of the World Trade Center taught him

that bombs and explosives could be problematic, and that he needed to graduate

to a more novel form of attack. He maintains that he and Yousef began

thinking about using aircraft as weapons while working on the Manila

air/Bojinka plot, and speculated about striking the World Trade Center and

CIA headquarters as early as 1995."

 

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.pdf Page 153

 

"KSM acknowledges formally joining al Qaeda, in late 1998 or 1999, and

states that soon afterward, Bin Ladin also made the decision to support his proposal

to attack the United States using commercial airplanes as weapons."

 

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.pdf Page 154

 

In regard to the recent terror alert: the information had been updated as recently as January of this year. Read Tom Ridge's piece in today's Wall Street Journal to hear why he raised the alert:

 

A Nation on Alert

 

By TOM RIDGE

August 9, 2004; Page A12

 

In the war on terror, information can be our best weapon. Most of the time the threat intelligence we glean -- while helpful -- is frustratingly general and gray.

 

Last week that was not the case. The information we received was uniquely specific. In spite of that, some have questioned the relevance of the information and the motivation behind sharing it.

 

There is no question about all the 40-page casing files found on the laptop computer of an al Qaeda operative. There is no question about the detailed surveillance carried out on the New York Stock Exchange, Prudential Financial, Citigroup, the IMF and the World Bank. There is no question about how the discovery of this information fit together with other intelligence streams to form an undeniable picture of a potential terrorist attack.

 

Information on the types of uniforms worn by guards, potential escape routes, places where employees hang out -- detail after detail down to the incline that exists on one of the underground parking garages -- is shockingly black and white.

 

And there was no question on the part of the people who received this information on what had to be done. Those directly involved acted upon this intelligence in a swift and decisive manner. State and local officials and private sector leadership ramped up security procedures, employees showed up to work, and citizens continued to go about their daily lives with the same vigilance and fortitude exhibited since the attacks of 9/11.

 

Some have also questioned the motivation and timing of the recent terror alert. In an election year, there will be those who want to view the release of this information through a political prism. Let me state what should go without stating: There is no place for politics in homeland security. We cannot allow the current political environment to distract government or private-sector leaders from doing what needs to be done to protect public safety.

 

As we reported in April, gathered intelligence suggests that al Qaeda is planning a large-scale attack on American soil to disrupt our democratic process. Last Friday morning, we first learned of detailed information about specific locations scouted by al Qaeda for possible attack.

 

These casing operations occurred in 2000 and 2001 and were recently updated in January of this year. But regardless of when al Qaeda did the groundwork, upon seeing the shocking new detail of their plans we were compelled to share this information immediately.

 

The 9/11 Commission outlined in great depth how al Qaeda operates. In the commission's own words this is "an enemy that is sophisticated, patient, disciplined, and lethal." And in their report, they detailed the long casing operations this organization undertakes to carry out its attacks.

 

Additionally, the commission found that the "casing" for the Nairobi embassy bombing in 1998 began in 1993 and that the planning for the horrific attacks of 9/11 began to take shape as early as 1996. Imagine if we had uncovered schematics for flying commercial airliners into the World Trade Towers in early 2001. Would we have dismissed the information because it was from 1996?

 

No. We would have given anything to have known what the terrorists were planning -- given anything to have been able to warn Americans -- given anything to have had a chance to stop the terrorists from succeeding.

 

As the 9/11 Commission noted -- "The biggest impediment to all-source analysis -- to a greater likelihood of connecting the dots -- is the human or systemic resistance to sharing information."

 

It is a tough balance we strike at the Department of Homeland Security between sharing information that makes us safer and sharing information that tips our hand to terrorists. But if we have information that could potentially save lives, we will share it with the American people every single time.

 

In the end, let's not lose sight of the facts. The facts in this case are that we uncovered detailed surveillance reports from al Qaeda pointing to an operation with the potential to kill many civilians. These reports, coupled with other separate threat information, demanded that action be taken. And, it was. We put out the facts. Government, law enforcement, companies and citizens took the appropriate precautions, put protections in place and have continued on.

 

And let there be no question that we too will continue to do what we need to as a government and as a nation to defeat terrorism and secure the country and freedoms that we all cherish.

 

Mr. Ridge is secretary of homeland security.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109200480591385993,00.html?mod=opinion

[CascadeClimber]

In the end, let's not lose sight of the facts.

 

You mean like by (for example) obscuring them with a 14 paragraph diatribe of utter nonsense? Yeah, let's certainly not do anything like that.

 

[Fairweather]

"There you go again!" Mr Strickland.

[Fairweather]

Mr. Strickland: No McFly ever amounted to anything in the history of Hill Valley!

 

Marty McFly: Yeah, well, history's gonna change.

[willstrickland]

Very good Mr. Fairweather, now do you have a hall pass?

 

Am I to assume that you are also negotiating with terrorists behind the administration's back ala Ronnie Ray-gun?

 

jjd: In spite of the long winded Ridge letter, you seem to be missing my point. Cast aside the various "convenient" terror alert timings for a minute, that is only peripheral to my point.

 

My point is: These assholes outed this guy Khan, as a way to back-up their decision to raise the alert level, and in doing so compromised a valuable intelligence source.

 

Now you might say "but everyone was questioning the relevance of their decision to raise the alerrt, they had to give some background".

 

I reply to that: Bullshit. If they hadn't been playing politics with the alert for the past year, there would be no need to "back up the decision".

[jjd]

in an attempt to justify a politcally motivated raise of the terror alert based on info that was 3 YEARS OLD!

 

I was responding to the bolded sections in the quote. The way I read the above was that you thought the terror alert was politically motivated and that information dated three years was not valuable. If I misunderstood, I apologize. Releasing the guy's name may or may not have made a difference - it would have been pretty obvious where the information came from when the details of the targets were announced (which I believe they should be).

[murraysovereign]

If anyone goes without communication for long enough, they will be presumed to have been arrested.

 

My understanding of this particular case is that, yes he'd been arrested and yes he was still communicating with his various contacts. Not only did he cooperate with his captors by helping them decipher the various codes and such on his laptop, but he was also using that laptop to e-mail his contacts to get updates on their whereabouts and activities. He then passed that information on to his captors. That's what made him such an invaluable source of intelligence - he wasn't just singing, he was composing and performing entire chorales. The only way this makes sense is if they deliberately blew Khan's cover in order to protect an even more important source.

[Fejas]

a lot.......... alot is not a word....

[willstrickland]

jjd: You read it correctly, and the 9/11 Report snips are interesting. Nevertheless, there was no good reason to compromise this source whether raising the threat was justified or not. If they had sufficient reason to raise it, fine do it. But you have to ask yourself "why the need to justify it?" To me all signs point to the fact that they've been playing politics with the alerts in the recent past and now that they have (or potentially have) a real reason to raise the level, they've compromised their believability such that they have to justify that decision to the public. My background readings on this case support what Murray states above.

[Stonehead]

This Reuters news article supports what Will says.

[mattp]

As a direct result of Bush co's politically motivated "leak," it looks as if al queda guys are getting away.

 

USA Today

[nalo]

I don't support terrorists, I grow my own bud and support only my local home depot.

 

AAnd to whoever said "why do you hate america?" I say that nothing is more patriotic than dissent.

[olyclimber]

see here for more on how they use the patriot act to target marijuana smugglers.

 

the war on drugs is now part of the war on terror!

 

I can't believe you guys missed this one. Please pay more attention!:

 

"One female smuggler stuffed $149,000 into her nylons in an unsuccessful bid to avoid detection at the border while another man hid the money "on the persons of his wife, niece and nephew, who were passengers" in the man's vehicle, court documents state."

[catbirdseat]

Did anyone see the New York Times Article (reprinted in Seattle PI/Times) about the abuses of the Material Witness law? Prosecutors are holding people as "material witnesses" rather than as accused criminals because they have fewer protections, such as Miranda Rights. Once in custody they try to trap them into making a false statement. This is done with people for which they don't have probable cause to arrest.

 

We should be very concerned about such abuses. This exactly the sort of thing that was going on in Europe before the founding of this country against which the framers of the Constitution were trying to protect.

 

The current targets of this abuse is anyone from Muslim countries and even American born converts to Islam such as the one mentioned in the article. It reminds me of what happened to Japanese Americans during WWII. This is a more insidious form of fear-driven persecution of a minority group.

 

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