Anyone here a marathon runner?

[olyclimber]

Just wondering what training program works for you, and what your results have been. I haven't run a marthon before, but I want to qualify for the Boston marathon...which means I have to finish in 3:15. I'll be running in the Portland marathon first, and I hope to qualify then. Anyone else training for this run?

[MervGriffin]

Don't feel disappointed if you don't qualify for Boston on your first marathon. Focus on completing. Maybe you've heard the old adage....it's two races, the first 20 miles and the last 6.2. You'll learn alot about yourself the first time and if you pick a pace you aren't ready for, you might end up in trouble. Unlike some of the shorter races, the marathon is long enough where there's potential for drama. Some people will probably not finish while others really struggle. And then there are those who run a fast time and seemingly barely break a sweat.

 

There are loads of training programs out there ranging from 6 months from scratch to two or three months if you run regularly. Most will have you work up to at least one 20 mile(or longer) run before you do the big race.

 

You might want to check out some out some of Jeff Galloway's books. And here's his web-site:

 

Jeff Galloway/marathon

 

My first organized marathon, I went from running ten miles comfortably, to twenty miles, to the marathon in ten days. Although I finished (staggering), THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED. Build up to it and you'll finish faster with less damage.

 

Also, you might pick your races carefully. Although some people prefer the giant big city runs with thousands of participants (such as Portland or Seattle), there are also some really pleasant smaller ones, some of which are quite scenic.

 

Good luck!

[olyclimber]

Ya, I think that maintaining the 8 minute mile pace for 26.2 miles might be a stretch even though I've been running for 4 months. I'm actually following the schedule for a qualifying pace found in Galloway's "Marathon!" book. I have no doubt I can finish with a reasonable time, but making it in 3:15 is going to be tough. My goal is really to just qualify for the the 2005 Boston, and I want to do it with enough time to plan the trip out to do it (no last moment plane tickets or anything). Do you have any marathons to suggest? I was going for the Portland and Seattle runs, but I'm open to other ideas (and fast, flat courses ... ).

[iain]

I did the Portland marathon a few years ago on essentially zero training. I was punished for this. The worst part was I biked to the event and had to bike home afterwards.

 

You learn a lot about running longer distances that you might not know if you don't do it much. Such as, you have to eat something. Gu would be a good thing to carry. You also discover why they hand out vaseline along the course. Don't start too far near the front of the pack, or you will burn out trying to keep up. At least I will. It was a lot of fun! Portland is a really organized event and they make it really fun.

[sobo]

OC,

I don't know whether she runs marathons or not, but I know she runs triathlons and then climbs volcanoes the day after...

 

Send a PM to climberchica of this board. Mebbe she has some ideers. Just a thought...

[UW_climber]

Seattle isn't the best one to go for a fast time. The weather is usually suck & there are some big hills. (Thats what everyone says about the hills, I came straight from cross-country when I did it, so the hills weren't bad at all). My coach from high school said the one in CA that runs along the coast is a really good race, thats the one he qualified for Bostin in. You might want to look into that.

[RobBob]

These guys have pretty well summed it up. A couple of additional thoughts (especially if you're over 30):

 

-Under-training (or over-training), or running a too-fast pace over this distance can result in injury. Make sure your training period is sufficient to gently build up the weekly mileage, and factor your race pace to your training pace.

 

-In fact, do everything in training similar to what you plan to do in races. This includes water and food intake. While it's easy to get your water in the race, I've found it harder to plan for sufficient water on really long training runs.

 

-My older brother and a couple of his buddies are over-50 marathoners who have consistently qualified for Boston through the years. Their long runs top out at the full 26.2, not just 20. I know that the training plans stop at 20 because they are balancing the risk of injury with the odds of completing the race. But just training to 20 is a strategy for surviving it, not for posting a qualifying time.

 

Dwayner's right, the last 6.2 is the fun part. Like most endurance fun, you either do well in those final minutes, and forget about the pain within a few hours...or else you do lousy and are haunted for months by your poor performance, till you run another one.

[tomtom]

Jeff Galloway published a book for training for marathons, giving specific programs for different target times.

 

http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/time_goal.html#15

[rbw1966]

The Portland Marathon is well organized and a lot of fun. The course itself is relatively flat, with the only uphill being a gentle rise to the St. Johns Bridge. The rest is flat, until you reach the gentle downhill slope leading into downtown portland.

 

The year I ran it, I tried to follow the recommended training goals but gave up pretty quickly and just ran as much as I could. 2 weeks before the race I ran my one and only 20-mile training run. I felt fine the entire race and was actually surprised by how much energy I had to finish. I kept hearing horror stories about people shutting down at the 20-mile mark. In the end I wished that I had pushed it a bit harder. Pay attention to your body.

[mbcracken]

I second the concern for over training. The fact that you are a climber as well a hiker, like myself. I tried to continue to do some afterwork power hiking without backing off on some portion of my training. I ended up with achilles problems and stress fractures in my feet. I was able to nurse my achilles along but the foot pain convinced me to see the Doc with just 3 weeks left before my first marathon. He highly suggested that I not run it and I took his advice. I would also stay off pavement as much as possible. Running is just plain hard on the body.

 

My $.02.

 

-Mike

[Gaper_Jeffy]

I did the Portland marathon a few years ago on essentially zero training. I was punished for this.

 

For "no" trainig you did pretty good!

 

Marathon

Bib: 3376

Name: Iain Morris

Gender: M

Age: 24 Age Grade: 51.35%

Division: 20-24 Division Place: 64

Home Town: Portland, OR

Start Time: 07:04:43.60

SPLIT TIME PACE PLACE

10K: 0:55:28 8:55

Half Marathon: 1:54:50 8:45

FINISH: 4:06:59 9:25 1457

Gun Time: 4:09:39

[Gaper_Jeffy]

Ya, I think that maintaining the 8 minute mile pace for 26.2 miles might be a stretch

 

How old will you be on the date of the Boston marathon? As you probably know the qualifying times are based on age and gender. An exact 8 min/mile pace puts you at 3:29 (which would qualify you only if you're 45 or older). To run a sub 3:15 (qualifying for 35 or older) you'd need a mile pace of 7:24 or faster. The qualifying times can be seen here.

 

What are you recent 10k, 15k or half marathon race times? If you've been training fairly constantly for 4 months you can extrapolate from these your ballpark marathon performance in October. Most likely unless you can run a sub 42minute 10k right now you will not be able to run a sub 3:15 marathon in 8 weeks (which is when the PDX Marathon is).

 

I disagree--as would a ton of other runners--with the recommondations of Jeff Galloway's book. Gallowalker's book is great for folks who just want to a finish a marathon regardless of time but it's not designed for the serious runner which is what you need to be if you want to qualify for Boston sans considerable genetic gifts (which you may have) or an EPO 'script (which if you have please PM me ;-)). You can read a portion of the many Gallowalker gripes here.

 

Rather then Gallowalker I'd recommend getting a copy of Advanced Marathong by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas. As long as your serious about training you will benefit from this book regardless of your running level.

 

Good luck!

[MervGriffin]

Hey Gaper/Big Shot:

 

What's with the "Gallowalker"? (Yah...I know his scenario) but show some respect for a gentleman who has helped huge numbers of people successfully finish their first marathons which this olyclimber is trying to do. He ain't necessarily ready for "Advanced Marathon" or Boston until he's got something under his belt. Either way, champ, cut Senor Galloway a little slack while we await your own authoritative tome on how to achieve marathon excellence and Boston-worthiness your first time out.

 

By the way, here's a few quotes from the DWF Runners Web-site :

 

Who is Jeff Galloway?

"Jeff Galloway is perhaps the one individual in the American running community who can combine a superior knowledge of our sport with the highest level of achievement - making the Olympic team."

Bill Rodgers, 4-time winner of the Boston Marathon

 

"Certainly Jeff Galloway has both the knowledge and the physical ability to speak from experience. His book is an outstanding contribution to competitive running."

Kenneth H. Cooper, M.D. Author of Aerobics

 

"Jeff Galloway is one of those rare individuals who not only knows his craft, but also has the ability to convey this knowledge through teaching."

Frank Shorter, 1972 Olympic Marathon Champion

 

P.S. Are runners as snotty and envious as climbers?

[olyclimber]

Ya, I think that maintaining the 8 minute mile pace for 26.2 miles might be a stretch

 

How old will you be on the date of the Boston marathon? As you probably know the qualifying times are based on age and gender. An exact 8 min/mile pace puts you at 3:29 (which would qualify you only if you're 45 or older). To run a sub 3:15 (qualifying for 35 or older) you'd need a mile pace of 7:24 or faster. The qualifying times can be seen here.

 

What are you recent 10k, 15k or half marathon race times? If you've been training fairly constantly for 4 months you can extrapolate from these your ballpark marathon performance in October. Most likely unless you can run a sub 42minute 10k right now you will not be able to run a sub 3:15 marathon in 8 weeks (which is when the PDX Marathon is).

 

I don't know what I was thinking when I said "8 minute mile". I'm 35, so I've got to run a 3:15 pace. My last race was a 12K in May, which I finished in 57 minutes...shortly after I started training. However until a month ago, my training was for climbing mountains, not running marathons. My longest run has been 21 miles, last weekend. I felt pretty good, but I'm starting to think that realistically I'm going to have to line up some other marathons other than PDX if I'm going to qualify for Boston, because I need to improve my pace by about 10-20 seconds a mile. I am on track to ramp up to running 26+ miles (and taper off before PDX), but since I've never run longer than 12K before (in a race, at least) at this point I don't think I have the "genetic gifts" to qualify at the PDX run.

 

Two questions:

1. What are the other Northwest marathons after PDX (and before April 2005) that you all would recommend that are admissable as Boston qualifiers?

 

2. What has been your recovery time required in between running marathons? I know this depends on me a bit, but what has been the closest interval for running marathons with respectable finishing times. I want to be able to schedule some races, but I don't want to do them too close together if I'll be wasting my time because my body can't recover.

 

Thanks everyone for the pro-Galloway/anti-Galloway comments. I have read his Marathon! book, which I picked up recently. There is some good information in there. I'm not following his program exactly, but I'm running a minimum of 4 times a week (three 8+ mile runs, one long run on the weekend that I have been ramping up (21 miles last weekend). I also ride by road bike once or twice a week (about 20-30 miles each ride). I make sure to take at least one day off a week. I have also been doing "interval training" every other weekend to see if I can get my pace up. Regardless of which method I use, my goal is to qualify for the Boston run...so I'll keep experimenting and running till I do so.

[John Frieh]

Not to rain on your run but you are aware that the Boston is so crowded that you can't run any faster than the masses are moving... most people who run the Boston generally record their worse time... people generally run the Boston for the scenery.

 

Run the Seattle in Dec... lots of hills though! Or even better switch over to trail running and save your knees for climbing! Pavement kills!

 

Recovery time varies from person to person: is this your first marathon? What is you current mileage per week/run schedule including how long is your long run, rest days, etc?

[rbw1966]

Seaside has a marathon around february or so, I seem to recall.

[olyclimber]

My parade isn't rained on. I work well with setting goals, and the real test for me is to qualify. Then I will run the Boston run as a "vacation", and just for the experience of running in that race. The other motive is just to get into great shape for other stuff I like to do (climbing, hiking, biking, etc)

 

I do run trails when I can, for the very reason you mention...it is much easier on the legs..but also because the scenery is much better.

 

I do plan on running the Seattle run, unless there is another, flatter run in the same time frame that I can do that will give me a better chance for qualifying.

[minx]

if you're willing to travel there's a couple flatter races in jan/feb that are still early enough to qualify for boston. i think tuscon is that early which is flat. check on when st. george, UT is. net downhill so it's fast, LA might just barely be early enough for a qualifier. seattle is hilly and the weather will probably suck.

[John Frieh]

D00d! If you already run trail why not stick with that? If you can run 26 you can easily make it to 31 and then you can enter all the 50Ks you want... and better yet you can chest beat with the fact that you are now an ultra marathoner (any distance over 26.2) instead of being one of those plain vanilla marathon runners. I switched from pavement to trails a few years ago and my knees don't hate me nearly as much now (I probably won't need a scope until 32 now...). And they do offer all the same race distances on dirt that pavement does.

 

Want some motivation? Become the first person to finish the plains 100 miler (run here in WA!) solo. Since the inception of the race in the 80s, of the 4 individuals who have completed the distance, each runner had to do it with another competitor (2 groups of 2) for as they all said “mental and emotional support.” Bad ass…

[Bronco]

Here's a marathon that drops about 2000' in elevation and you could drive there in a day.

 

http://www.lewisandclarkmarathon.com/

[minx]

Here's a marathon that drops about 2000' in elevation and you could drive there in a day.

 

http://www.lewisandclarkmarathon.com/

 

if it has too much net elevation loss the ustfa won't certify the course and it won't be elegible for a boston qualifier.

[olyclimber]

Looks like they are going to try to get thier course certified so it could be a qualifying run. link

 

But if I ran this one I would have to choose between it and the PDX run the next weekend.

[tomtom]

Two questions:

1. <snip>

 

2. What has been your recovery time required in between running marathons? I know this depends on me a bit, but what has been the closest interval for running marathons with respectable finishing times. I want to be able to schedule some races, but I don't want to do them too close together if I'll be wasting my time because my body can't recover.

 

I'd say at least a couple months, depending on how you treat the first marathon. If you race the first for time and they are too close together, there's no time for training. You're either recovering from the first or resting for the second. If you treat the first as just another long training run, then recovery will be quicker.

 

I tried running two marathons in a month's time. I meant the first as a training run, but I had to catch a flight and Albuquerque is at 5000', so my slow pace was actually quite taxing. Five weeks later, my time was slower than the year before.

 

Naturally, YMMV. I read about a guy who ran sub 2:20 marathons every month for a whole year.

[olyclimber]

Seaside has a marathon around february or so, I seem to recall.

 

Anyone know the website for this run? It seems to be held by the Oregon Road Runners Club (same people who do the Portland Marathon), but I can't find any info. I just want to find out the following: A.) Is the course certified B.) What is the profile C.) Is the run definitely on for 2005.

 

thanks.

[Bronco]

Looks like they are going to try to get thier course certified so it could be a qualifying run. link

 

But if I ran this one I would have to choose between it and the PDX run the next weekend.

 

I was just suggesting it as a training race. I wouldn't try to qualify for the Boston Marathon by choosing a race at 5000' elevation.