iraq or bust

[Szyjakowski]

an email from my friend:

 

A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

 

 

 

If you can't get through this list without wanting to throw up, I'll understand. But pass it around anyway. This is the nail in the Iraq War's coffin for any sane, thinking individual, regardless of their political stripe. (Thanks to Tom Paine.com and the Center for American Progress.)

 

To get some perspective, here are some real-life comparisons about what $87 billion means:

 

$87 Billion is more than the combined total of all State budget deficits in the United States. The Bush administration proposed absolutely zero funds to help states deal with these deficits, despite the fact that their tax cuts drove down state revenues. [source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

 

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs under George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension passed by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to workers who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find work [source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

 

$87 Billion is more than double the total amount the government spends on Homeland Security. The U.S. spends about $36 billion on homeland security. Yet, Sen. Warren Rudman (R- N.H.) wrote, America will fall approximately $98 ...4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs for homeland security without a funding increase. [source: Council on Foreign Relations].

 

$87 Billion is 87 times the amount the Federal Government spends on After School Programs. George W. Bush proposed a budget that reduces the $1 billion for after-school programs to $600 million cutting off about 475,000 children from the program. [source: The Republican – dominated House Appropriations Committee].

 

$87 Billion is more that 10 times what the Government spends on all environmental Protection. The Bush administration requested just $7.6 billion for the entire Environmental Protection Agency. This included a 32 percent cut to water quality grants, a 6 percent reduction in enforcement staff, and a 50 percent cut to land acquisition and conservation. [source: Natural Resources Defense Council].

 

There you go, in black and white. A few million of you will receive this letter. Please share the above with at least a half-dozen people today and tomorrow. I, like you, do not want to see another approval rating over 50 percent.

 

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker

 

Never be afraid to be happy

[wally]

John Kerry Quote "I actually did vote for the 87 billion, before I voted against it."

[gotterdamerung]

Michael Moore is a fat, overrated fuckstick, with an agenda of his own. He is not an expert on anything except creating controversy in order to sell films and frankly I can't believe anyone would garner a political outlook based on anything guy has to say.

[JoshK]

I'm not so sure it's so black or white. I really dont think Michael Moore's agenda is solely to sell films, books, etc. The guy has a general beef with the state of this country (as we all should) and it's important that people speak up. I'm not so sure the fact that something like 3/4 of Bush's cabinent came from business (many of them oil, pharm, etc) is something that is *not* worth stirring up cotroversy over. Same thing with the programs he's axed, the shady shit he has participated in, etc...If people are dumb enough to take everything Mike says and vote solely on that, then it's their fault. But I think if his films at least open up people's eyes to expect more from or govt, then they have worked. I'm not even talking about things like gun control or other specific issues, just the general scumbaggery that is this administration and it's chronies.

[Lars]

something like 3/4 of Bush's cabinent came from business

 

you mean they used to have real jobs like the rest of us?

omigod, what a travesty!!

[cj001f]

you mean they used to have real jobs like the rest of us?

omigod, what a travesty!!

I've met a shitload more clueless, petty, dishonest beauracrats in the business world than I did in academia or working for the military. Of course maybe you want mindless beauracrats.

 

And being the board member of a corporation isn't a job like the rest of us have. Unless you get paid $50k to show up twice a month.

[Fairweather]

Obviously, none of us has seen Moore's new film. But if it is as it is being billed - accusing Bush of complicity in the attacks of 9/11/01, then the fat fuck Moore should be sued for slander or libel. He is a lying fat fuck with no artistic or socially redeeming qualities of which to speak. Only those most radically in concert with his agenda would review his work with any praise whatsoever.

 

Michael Moore: feeding the tools...making $$$$ telling them what they want to hear.

 

BTW! Did you hear the fat bastard is being sued by Ray Bradbury, author of Farenheit 451? Apparently he doesn't like the copyright infrigement...or the message! GO Ray!!!!

[Ratboy]

Michael Moore: feeding the tools...making $$$$ telling them what they want to hear.

 

Sounds like Fox News.

 

BTW! Did you hear the fat bastard is being sued by Ray Bradbury, author of Farenheit 451? Apparently he doesn't like the copyright infrigement...or the message! GO Ray!!!!

 

What I read last week was that Bradbury wasn't planning to sue, but was still hoping to get Moore to change the title because he has a film of the book coming up soon. He also explicitly said he didn't have a opinion one way or the other on Moore's ilm itself. This may have changed since Friday when I read it, though.

[Ratboy]

Here's one of the articles I read on it last week:

 

Moore Film Title Angers Author Bradbury

 

I know there was another because I remember specifically reading mention of the upcoming movie for Fahrenheit 451 and Bradbury saying he wasn't weighing in on the Moore's movie at all. I don't remember where that was, though. Too many news sources, I guess. Do you have a link for a piece where he speaks out against the film other than the title?

[willstrickland]

You folks might find this site interesting http://www.bowlingfortruth.com it dissects the liberties Moore took with editing and bending the truth. I think Moore has a talent for what he does - stirring up shit with half-truths. This site is pretty telling (it breaks it down scene by scene). The self-serving selective editing (the bank/gun scene is one) is disingenuous and cowardly.

 

I encourage you to check out that site. I actually enjoy Moore's work, but I definitely don't side with him on the issues. I think he is crafty, and pretty intelligent. It's a shame he's such a manipulative bastard with a moonbat agenda.

[cracked]

[sailBOI]

" It's a shame he's such a manipulative bastard with a moonbat agenda. "

 

Like Kerry during NAM , his actions are hanging our warriors out to dry. They are already facing decapitation every day, and that is before Moore decapitates the USA !

[graupel]

Okay, perhaps Moore is not a pretty sight to look at, but questioning what is going on has merit. Hardly any of the posters on this thread address the content of what he says here. Is spending that much, with more to follow, with an indeterminate outcome, without consequence? Do you hardcore conservatives not have a problem increasing the national debt, devaluing the dollar, yet doing nothing policy wise to reduce US consumption of petroleum? Or is it okay to get screwed over by the government as long as something blows up in the process?

 

What about allowing the drug trade to regenerate in Afganistan? The drug money was another way the bad guys get their funding.

 

To put the financial aspect into perspective for a topic closer to home, shortly after the war portion of Dubya's little adventure started there was a cost attributed to the monthly occupation. I noticed the cost of one month occupation happened to be the amount that the entire National Park Service claims to have in maintenance backlog which took probably decades to accumulate.

[AlpineK]

I've only ever watched Me and Rodger. I thought that was an amusing film.

 

All I can say is that I'm happy MM gets you conservatives panties all twisted up. Maybe someday you'll start demanding truth out of other folks like Bill O'Riely, Rush, or the whole Fox news network.

[Dru]

So is "rack" or "bust" the better term for the breasts? "Bust" sounds sort of old fashioned. Layton has the funny t-shirt with "Nice rack". For this reason I'd vote for rack over bust.

[murraysovereign]

<inadvertent double-post deleted by murraysovereign>

[murraysovereign]

I think Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld have a talent for what they do - stirring up shit with half-truths... The self-serving selective editing (the Saddam/Osama connection is one, the whole WMD thing is another) is disingenuous and cowardly.

 

I actually enjoy their work, but I definitely don't side with them on the issues. I think they're crafty, and pretty intelligent. It's a shame they're such manipulative bastards with a moonbat agenda.

 

[willstrickland]

Hey, you're not going to rile me. I agree with you, this administration is abhorent. They are calculating and bumbling at the same time, and certainly the worst administration of my lifetime.

 

Still, that doesn't make Michael Moore any less of an asshole. So right back atcha.

[murraysovereign]

Oh, I agree with you on M.M. - he's clever, and I've enjoyed watching some of his stuff, but I don't let him formulate my opinions for me. I just had a funny sense reading your post that someone, somewhere, might have been looking at a mirror.

 

OK, now I've really got to get some work done today. See y'all later.

[j_b]

Still, that doesn't make Michael Moore any less of an asshole.

 

you guys are good at slinging insults but short on providing verifyable evidence. that site of yours is full of gratuitous attacks, non-sequitur, strawmen arguments, and more. none of it that i read amounts to a flaw in m.moore fundamental story line in bfc, i.e. that widespread condoning of violence in our culture and institutions is responsible for the events of columbine. conservatives would much rather continue blaming individuals instead of confronting the societal problem.

 

i'll grant you one thing: m.moore does not set out to be objective, but don't pretend that anyone else is. one only needs to consider the coverage of events in the media in the build up to war to see that editing, leaving out pertinent facts, etc ... is the rule and not the exception.

 

i just can't wait to see sales receipts for moore's new movie.

[jjd]

I am going to write a book called "Michael Moore is a Big Fat Idiot, and other observations".

[JayB]

an email from my friend:

 

A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

 

 

 

If you can't get through this list without wanting to throw up, I'll understand. But pass it around anyway. This is the nail in the Iraq War's coffin for any sane, thinking individual, regardless of their political stripe. (Thanks to Tom Paine.com and the Center for American Progress.)

 

To get some perspective, here are some real-life comparisons about what $87 billion means:

 

$87 Billion is more than the combined total of all State budget deficits in the United States. The Bush administration proposed absolutely zero funds to help states deal with these deficits, despite the fact that their tax cuts drove down state revenues. [source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

 

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs under George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension passed by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to workers who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find work [source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

 

$87 Billion is more than double the total amount the government spends on Homeland Security. The U.S. spends about $36 billion on homeland security. Yet, Sen. Warren Rudman (R- N.H.) wrote, America will fall approximately $98 ...4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs for homeland security without a funding increase. [source: Council on Foreign Relations].

 

$87 Billion is 87 times the amount the Federal Government spends on After School Programs. George W. Bush proposed a budget that reduces the $1 billion for after-school programs to $600 million cutting off about 475,000 children from the program. [source: The Republican – dominated House Appropriations Committee].

 

$87 Billion is more that 10 times what the Government spends on all environmental Protection. The Bush administration requested just $7.6 billion for the entire Environmental Protection Agency. This included a 32 percent cut to water quality grants, a 6 percent reduction in enforcement staff, and a 50 percent cut to land acquisition and conservation. [source: Natural Resources Defense Council].

 

There you go, in black and white. A few million of you will receive this letter. Please share the above with at least a half-dozen people today and tomorrow. I, like you, do not want to see another approval rating over 50 percent.

 

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker

 

Never be afraid to be happy

 

$87 Billion dollars is the amount of money that both houses of congress voted in favor of spending on the mission in Iraq. End of story.

 

Yes - it would be much more progressive to spend nothing and guarantee that Iraq will descend immediately into full-on state failure and civil war, the likes of which will generate civilian casualties several orders of magnitude higher than those generated by the invasion itself.

 

We certainly don't want to be spending any more money providing the troops serving over there with all of the supplies and equipment that they need to do their job as safely and effectively as possible.

 

We are going to be in Iraq for the forseeable future. Even if Bush loses. This is reality. What the formerly anti-war camp is now protesting against now are efforts to provide the necessary resources for the troops deployed there and to give their efforts to rebuild the country the maximum chance to succeed. If you want the president out of office, there are plenty of ways to take shots at him without catching the troops and the Iraqi civilains in the crossfire.

[graupel]

Apparently you overlook the minor issue that the takeover of Iraq was elective. The 87 Billion is to try to shore up a mess Bush started without international support. Nobody wants troops coming home in body bags, but I bet you would have heard considerable more discussion if Bush had asked Congress to sign a $100 Billion check as a down payment before going in.

[toptimmy]

Why does a filmmaker giving another side of a story scare conservatives so damm much.

[klenke]

Re: Bradbury v. Moore

The way I calclulate it, Moore has got Bradbury beat on this one: 4 + 5 + 1 = 10 but 9 + 1 + 1 = 11. Sorry, Ray.