BreezyD Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 With another death in the past few days, and a possible fourth body still on the mountain ... what is everyone's best guess as to what is causing all the deaths on Liberty Ridge this year. Conditions? Inexperience? B Quote
Greg_W Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Sorry, but this is one of the all-time stupidest questions I've seen on this board. Worse than, "what flavor Clif Bar makes my shit green?" There are so many variables that come into play on such a route, who's to say? It'd just be a bunch of "maybe...possibly...coulda, shoulda, woulda, mental masturbation. Who fucking cares? Just make sure YOU are safe when you go out. Quote
BreezyD Posted June 18, 2004 Author Posted June 18, 2004 Sorry for wasting your time Greg_W. It was just supposed to be a question to open up a dialog. I was curious as to what everyone's opinions are since most on this board are more experienced than I am. Quote
eternalX Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Greg - Lighten up. Breezy is new and she's getting started. When you're new, you have no idea where to start. It's not like she jumped to any conclusions. Instead of getting pissed off because somebody lacks knowledge, maybe you could point to places where she can read up and/or otherwise gain knowledge. Breezy - It would all be speculation at this point i'm sure. Check the posts on the main forum. Some of the members of these teams have posted about what happened. It's up to you to draw your own conclusions on what happened, if it was avoidable, and what you can do to limit the chances of it happening to you. I'm not sure how accurate all the information is, but from most of the stuff I've seen, in all three incidents the climbers were experienced. Quote
Greg_W Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Sorry for jumping down your throat, Breezy; I didn't realize you were new, or a newbie. However, as a newbie, what can be gained by a bunch of "what-if" opinions and speculation? For you, sweetheart, the best advice I can give you is EDUCATE YOURSELF. Learn about snow conditions, weather systems, snow consolidation, etc., and THEN draw your own conclusions when you get out in it. All you will gain from this discussion is the jism of our mental masturbation on what MIGHT have happened. And, really, you probably could do without that drycleaning bill. See you out there. Quote
BreezyD Posted June 18, 2004 Author Posted June 18, 2004 Thanks eternalX. Right after I posted this question, I noticed the thread on the main Climber's Board and have been reading those opinions there. The info found there was exactly what I was trying to glean by my apparently "all-time stupidest" questions that I have ever posted. B Quote
iain Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Since it seems these were mostly falling accidents involving trauma, I think it underlines the old question of are you really on belay Quote
CascadeClimber Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 It's up to you to draw your own conclusions on what happened, if it was avoidable, and what you can do to limit the chances of it happening to you. Yup. Climbing is dangerous. The penalty for error is often swift and harsh, regardless of experience. And making no errors is no guarantee of not being penalized. It's a personal thing to weigh risk against reward, and it's a continuous process. Climb safe. -L Quote
BreezyD Posted June 18, 2004 Author Posted June 18, 2004 Thanks Greg_W ... Fear not, I am doing my part in both educating myself and getting out in it and learning for myself but I also can appreciate the opinions of those that might be more experienced. No such thing as too much information in my mind. P.S. - I ain't yo' sweetheart. Quote
Greg_W Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Thanks Greg_W ... P.S. - I ain't yo' sweetheart. No shit; my Sweetheart gets a capital 'S'. Quote
Greg_W Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Fabulous. She is. You know her? Huh, small world. Quote
BreezyD Posted June 18, 2004 Author Posted June 18, 2004 Hadn't seen it, great info. Thanks Dru! Brianna Quote
eternalX Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 hey breezy did you read this thread? We could all learn a few things from our neighbors to the north. Quote
alpinespider Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Breezy, Don't worry about your question. Once all the true details come out then analysis of causes becomes more clear. You are doing the right thing by asking how the accidents are occuring but just a little premature. All climbers should learn from everyone elses mistakes or bad luck, that is why North American climbing accident reports come out every year so others can learn. You DO always have to trust your own instincts but you can always learn to avoid similar situations by analyzing past accidents. Keep asking questions and making good decisions and you be a lot more likely to stay alive in the mountains. Quote
fleblebleb Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Breez, get a copy of Accidents in North American Mountaineering or browse in the bookstore. It's good to skim through an issue semi-regularly. Sobering, sort of. The stuff in there is basically what accident threads on cc.com eventually become, only condensed to a minimum. Much better signal-to-noise ratio. That said, the accident discussions here are important, at least to me. Quote
icegirl Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Mt Rainier is just downright angry this year, menopause or PMS, not sure which, i guess it depends on if this is a cyclic occurence and her age (you know, mt. years, like dog years?) At least she has not gone and blown her top like her neighbor. Quote
Bandit Posted June 19, 2004 Posted June 19, 2004 Breezy, all questions are good questions. Greg W is way out of line. He is the kind of guy that will get hung out on a route like Liberty Ridge. Too much macho and not enough humble attitude. You are doing your homework and checking on what is going on. Good going. That is smart. Knowledge is power, so don't be afraid to ask questions because even the most experienced mountaineer can always learn something new. Quote
AaronB Posted June 19, 2004 Posted June 19, 2004 Sorry, but this is one of the all-time stupidest questions I've seen on this board. Worse than, "what flavor Clif Bar makes my shit green?" There are so many variables that come into play on such a route, who's to say? It'd just be a bunch of "maybe...possibly...coulda, shoulda, woulda, mental masturbation. Who fucking cares? Just make sure YOU are safe when you go out. Wow Greg, Glad to know we have a "stupid question monitor". Do I need to pay a monitor tax now? Fucking retard Quote
NCNate Posted June 21, 2004 Posted June 21, 2004 Good question Breezy. I think there are many of us asking similar questions. I often read reports about accidents to learn about what happened, what to watch for, and what may keep me and my partners alive in the future. It will probably take a while to determine what happened on these but some of the past reports from Rainier are available here: http://www.nps.gov/mora/climb/cl_rpt.htm Best of luck! -Nate Quote
Bandit Posted June 21, 2004 Posted June 21, 2004 A lot of good info can be gleaned from Mountaineering Accidents in North America. Covers MRNP accidents in detail . Good reading for those who want to learn and find out what caused many a mistake on Rainier. Quote
catbirdseat Posted June 21, 2004 Posted June 21, 2004 From what I've been able to gather from the reports, there is no single cause for the accidents. Although falling is the ultimate cause of injury and death, there are multiple causes for the falls. There are a lot of factors at play: equipment used, skill level, illness, hardness of the ice, rockfall, avalanche, wind. It is easy to confuse coincidence with causality. Quote
Bronco Posted June 21, 2004 Posted June 21, 2004 ... Greg W is way out of line. He is the kind of guy that will get hung out on a route like Liberty Ridge. Too much macho and not enough humble attitude... Quote
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