Michael Moore

[cracked]

[JoshK]

There is a reason the right wing hates him and is afraid of him...lots of people listen to him.

 

Josh, reasonable people in the center dislike the guy, because he is a cynical misfit who is not in search of the truth, but instead out to put people down.

 

Funny thing about people who deep-down distrust other people's motives all the time. I've hired a lot of people over the years, and given a lot of personality profile tests to people for management, sales, and admin jobs. I have made several hires when people scored low on "trust" and damn if they haven't been the very ones who turned out to be untrustworthy themselves. I guess it's a "I know you're going to fuck me, so I'll make sure I fuck you first" mentality. I believe that Michael Moore has this personality trait.

 

How does he not represent the truth? Read his page, he has the documentation (and the video clips ) to back up everything he has said. He presents his movie in a comedic tone so people actually go to it or rent it. Give me a break, the NRA and it's chronies are all about spreading fear and loathing and ruthlessly bringing down anybody they see as an enemy.

[RobBob]

His schtick is all about the put-down and not about the truth. He likes to portray people in business and politics as sellouts, and is willing to be a sellout to sell his schtick.

[JoshK]

His schtick is all about the put-down and not about the truth. He likes to portray people in business and politics as sellouts, and is willing to be a sellout to sell his schtick.

 

Again, please give an example where he doesn't illustrate the truth. Yes, he is about the put-down, just like every other special interest group running negative ads.

[ryland_moore]

JoshK and others,

 

I love Michael Moore and his tactics of bringing out the truth. However, in his latest book and documentary regarding ties between the Bush's and Bin Laden, I was very dissappointed to hear that Moore got his facts wrong as to the timing of the Bin Laden's flying out of the US during September of 2001. He reported that the Bin Laden family was flying when all planes were grounded. This is simply not true. Let me state that I am a Democrat and cannot stand Bush. But, when Moore knowingly lies or misrepresents the truth for sensationalism, it does nothing for what he is trying to promote. The truth is that the Bind Laden family were not allowed to fly until after the no-fly ban was lifted and then every individual on those private flights were researched by the FBI and CIA to determine if any of them have ever had ties to Osama. After everyone was cleared and allowed to fly, and after the 9/11 commission came back recently, another check was done on every single one of those passengers to see if they had come back up on the radar screen since that time. No links between the bin laden family members who flew out of the US and Osama have risen since 2001 as well.

 

Again I praise Michael for what he is doing, I just think that he needs to only bring out the truth instead of trying to rely on sensationalism and shock-value to get people's attentions when they are not true. If he continues to do this, he will lose credit and people cannot take his word at face value, which before I had no problem doing.

[Mal_Con]

I have not seen anything definitive to prove Moore wrong and I have read many articles confirming his story. Example, here is a article from snopes apologies to him. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

[ryland_moore]

Watch or purchase Dateline NBC's, "Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11" which aired on May 6th, 2004. In this they discovered that Michael Moore was in fact lying or as he puts it, "may have gotten some of the dates mixed up." The bin Laden's never flew out of the US until Sept. 20th and all of them were herded up by the govt. prior to that for questioning and to determine if they had any ties to Osama. Nothing more.

 

I am actually glad the govt. was getting all the folks together as soon as possible. What if one of the family members was a part of it? Bout the only correct thing the Bush Administration has done in the last 4 years...

[klenke]

Ryland said, "If [Moore] continues to do this, he will lose credit and people cannot take his word at face value, which before I had no problem doing."

 

He's already full of shit as far as I'm concerned. Clutching at straws. People will believe anything these days. There's no such thing as fact or fiction anymore, only spin. Round and round and round it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

[Mal_Con]

I checked google, NBC, MSNBC, and a number of conservative web sites and could find nothing about this. There are many stories on Disney and Miramax but nothing on this. I know the flight was after 9-11 but at a time when private flights were still banned. I thought Powell had admitted all this. Seeing as Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 has still not been released I doubt it would have this transparent a lie.

 

Perhaps you are talking about a "review" in the WSJ onwhich case Morre has already published his thoughts here http://www.michaelmoore.com/

 

I guess we will have to wait for the film to come out to determine if it is accurate, anyhow I have to go hit the hills now

Edited May 13, 2004 by Mal_Con

[ryland_moore]

I did not read this but watched it come from Stone Phillips mouth. I looked for the dialogue for this written out but have yet to find it. To paraphrase, it stated that once believed to be true was that the family was shipped out of the country during the no-fly period. They stated that the military did fly the bin Laden family (gathering them from all over the country) to interrogate them to see if they knew anything or had any connections with Osama. This happened I believe around the 13th or 14th. It was not on the 11th, as I recall. Then after checks on each individual, interrogation, and questioning occurred, Phillips stated that they were then sent to Saudi Arabia on the 20th. He also stated that the 9/11 commission, after findingmore details out recently, requested another search by the CIA to determine if any of the relatives who were sent out of the country have turned up on the intelligence radar since 9/11 for terrorism acts or are new suspects. None of them are. I am jujst reporting what I watched as my jaw dropped. I was kind of pissed, as I find NBC to be a fairly reputable source, and I now had to question Moore's statements.

[John Frieh]

I meet him at the WTO protest in Seattle a few years back; very nice, knowledgeable man that was easily approached.

 

What's worse? Distorting the truth as Moore supposable does, or just plain hiding it behind "patriot" acts, Supreme Court hunting buddies, and questions whose appropriateness is predetermined by the individuals being questioned (all behind closed doors of course)?

[klenke]

They're both worse.

It's like having to choose between two stalls in a public bathroom where neither of the previous users flushed their shit down. Both stink. And both are hard to deal with. You wind up going to a third reliable source...you pucker up and go home...and shit in your own toilet.

[scott_harpell]

I don't care who lied worse... fucker is a joke and a self loathing, euro pandering anti american... foreign countries eat up his lies and well... you see what results... [video of 9/11]

[John Frieh]

Stop the train... perhaps I read this wrong, but are you attributing 9/11 to Moore?

[scott_harpell]

Stop the train... perhaps I read this wrong, but are you attributing 9/11 to Moore?

 

nope... just using the same editing sequence in my post that he used in his film... idiotic isn't it?

[John Frieh]

So what were you trying to say?

[scott_harpell]

That doing things like saying that the lockheed plant in the film made missiles... which it didn't (telecom satelite rockets) hiring actors and editing multiple speeches together to create a false statement are things usually frowned upon in the doc industry. Also, his blue jeans and ratty tee shirt is pretty cute for the photo shoots, but i wonder why he refuses to be photographed in his usual attire; a tux in his limo? He is merely a capitolist leeching off the liberals in order to make a buck... he has you wraped around his little finger ready to drop bills into his warm pudgy fingers.

[Squid]

so...he's a good Republican?

 

Any kid from Flint, MI, who makes it big in the world based on his best-selling books and movies gets at the very least my grudging admiration and respect.

 

I think you're just jealous.

[John Frieh]

I thought you were a flag wavin' laissez faire minded scab? Wouldn't you be supportive of anyone perpetuating the “great” capitalist way of life (or is death the correct term?) regardless of who they are prospering from? Or are your feathers all rustled up when a few of us lemmings don’t march to the drum beat?

[scott_harpell]

Nope... I just think that its a joke that he has all you liberal pansies by the balls while he is getting distributed by miramax and making 9 figures... yeah sure... anti-establishment my ass. Also, the foreigners who take his propaganda litteraly use this for fuel and I would not be surprised if it contributed to the sentiments that lead to terrorist attacks.

[rbw1966]

What a fucking hypocrite. Moore takes advantage of his right to free speech and engages in democratic debate the same way politicians do (hyperbole, muckraking, spin, etc.) and you get your scab-covered ass all in an uproar. What I think is a joke is your implication that he should be chastised for his movies.

 

What the fuck about those images of prisoner abuse that has ALREADY led to further terrorism?

 

I'm not for a second saying I support Moore's behavior.

[Jim]

This is what happens when alternative views actually get anywhere near mainstream media coverage. The right-wingers get their shorts twisted.

[JoshK]

Ryland, didn't you see this link that was posted?

 

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

[John Frieh]

 

Or maybe the sediments for the attacks came from the realization that america is a bunch of heartless idiots like yourself that think its okay for Israel to have WMD (which they are required to purchase with each aid check we send) but not okay for Saddam (even though we gave them to him but a decade ago). But hey... have we found any yet? I thought that's why we went in the first place. Or maybe it was just an exercise in the combat picture readiness of our troops...

 

You need to transfer to a liberal arts college in america soon or your brain might become permanently retarded.

 

And no ones perfect; yeah Miramax is selling out, but generally one has to use the system to change it. Just an idea.

[JoshK]

Let us remember...Israel isn't the one who has started 3 wars against it's neighbors and vowed destruction of the jewish state. Israel has to worry about it's survival every day, where as the arab states don't have to worry about Israel suddeningly invading from all sides.