Mike Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 Flagging as a source of garbage is pretty minimal, so it's silly to talk about it as though it were some huge impact. If you're concerned about the environment, there are plenty of more urgent issues. That being said, poor flagging is like poor bolting - an eyesore and not especially useful. But I've followed plenty of overgrown trails with little more than the occasional flag every couple hundred feet to let me know that I haven't wandered off onto some game trail. As for all the complaining about taking a crap (urine is sterile and most of us are dehydrated anyway, so this shouldn't be a problem.) Most of these flagged routes are remote, way off the beaten path and in the woods, so the impact is trivial if the few people travelling in these areas bury their feces and burn their TP. Quote
arlen Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 I just follow the dropped Nalgene bottles. Seriously, I don't trust flags anyway, for reasons somebody brought up above. Is it an approach trail, or am I gonna wind up at a logging survey site? Quote
Bogen Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 I have run across flagging that I could see no earthly reason for, other than somebody unnecessarily flagging their back trail. I suppose this happens more in the featureless north, but I have seen it down here on the coast. I suppose I feel strongly about this because I have been led astray, foolishly following someone else's trail when common sense would have served better. Quote
Greg_W Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 I leave breadcrumbs. Thanks, they were tasty. Quote
Bronco Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 (edited) "So from dis flagging here, you look over der and go to dat one over der". Edited February 26, 2004 by Bronco Quote
Thinker Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 it costs quite a bit to have surveyors flag property lines before development, logging, or natural resources inventories. The flagging may look like a trail to someone looking for a trail, but in reality, the flagging is often just a boundary marker. Quote
archenemy Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 Kinda like when my dog pisses on the trees in the yard, but more expensive? Quote
jefffski Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 some flagging can be helpful, but last summer, on my way to climb that newish 10 pitch route on the chief in squamish, i removed about a whole roll of it. some areas had flags on 4 adjacent trees and then another bunch on a few trees only steps away. what garbage! Quote
scrambled_legs Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 Flagging as a source of garbage is pretty minimal, so it's silly to talk about it as though it were some huge impact. As for all the complaining about taking a crap (urine is sterile and most of us are dehydrated anyway, so this shouldn't be a problem.) Most of these flagged routes are remote, way off the beaten path and in the woods, so the impact is trivial if the few people travelling in these areas bury their feces and burn their TP. hhhaaha... finally someone found the crap comments to be over the top. This was the point that I was getting at. Flagging has way less of an impact than taking a nice steamer, so forget about it. Do you really burn your TP??? How do you go about doing this??? I can only picture you with your head right next to your crap flicking a lighter... repulsive. You do know that TP will break down immediately following the first rainfall which, if it isn't at the present, will be within 15min if you live on the west coast. Quote
Superman Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 And to all of you not carrying out your dogs and your own shit, shame on you!!! this is why we now have to use water filters you filthy swine!! How would you like it if I shit in your backyard! I think you're going a little overboard here. If you're climbing Rainier or Baker and you shit in the snow, shame on you. But if you're on Barneywockle Peak and you find a nice little rock to glue to the forest floor, or a nice little pit to sit a spell, I'd go for it -- just cover your tracks. Chances are nobody is going to be turning over that rock for a few years, and by then that pile of dung is going to be a distant memory. I just don't see what all the fuss is about. And you're more than welcome to shit in my backyard if you cover your tracks -- feel free. Just don't let me see you doing it. As for the flagging issue, I don't see a problem with it as long as you're not flagging up the latest shortcut on the Mt. Si trail. And I admit to not reading this whole thread before I posted .. so that's what I get I guess. Quote
ScottP Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 Flagging as a source of garbage is pretty minimal, so it's silly to talk about it as though it were some huge impact. If you're concerned about the environment, there are plenty of more urgent issues. That being said, poor flagging is like poor bolting - an eyesore and not especially useful. But I've followed plenty of overgrown trails with little more than the occasional flag every couple hundred feet to let me know that I haven't wandered off onto some game trail. As for all the complaining about taking a crap (urine is sterile and most of us are dehydrated anyway, so this shouldn't be a problem.) Most of these flagged routes are remote, way off the beaten path and in the woods, so the impact is trivial if the few people travelling in these areas bury their feces and burn their TP. Mike, You might want to double check your facts about urine. It is only sterile inside the body. Also, the introduction of excessive amounts of the dissolved salts (urea) in urine are a pretty serious degradent to natural environments. But then we are all dehydrated anyway Quote
Thinker Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 Urine is 'normally' sterile, if you define sterile as the absence of bacteria. If one has a urinary tract infection and/or certain STDs, their urine will NOT be sterile. Quote
mattp Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 The problems with crapping in the woods are at least twofold: (1) you are potentially fouling the water supply and (2) you are leaving a mess behind. It is a relatively simple and obvious thing to follow the advice about not taking a dump near any stream or lake, but minimizing the likeliehood that somebody else is going to step in your shit or find your toilet paper seems to be more difficult for many people. In wet western Washington woods it is a good idea to burn your toilet paper and I don't know what scrambled legs' problem is. Don't try this in Leavenworth in August, though, or you may torch the whole place. In the forest, scratch a cat-hole in the duff and then bury your load when you get done. Above treeline, it is probably better to leave it on the surface if you are in an out-of-the way place, but maybe not in some popular area like Boston Basin. Do not cover it up with a rock - this preserves it for the next guy to find when they are looking for rocks to hold down their tent - and it will last under there as a recognizeable pile of shit and toilet paper for years. Quote
catbirdseat Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 You do know that TP will break down immediately following the first rainfall which, if it isn't at the present, will be within 15min if you live on the west coast. This is simply not true and you know it. Toilet paper can be recognizable as such for up to two years even in the wettests of forests. Either burn it, bury it, or pack it out, but don't leave it lying around for me to look at. Quote
rbw1966 Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 Hiking along the Timberline Trail on Hood last summer I counted 10 different tufts of TP before I finally stopped counting. All within 5 feet of the trail. Lame Quote
mattp Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 Hiking along the Timberline Trail on Hood last summer I counted 10 different tufts of TP before I finally stopped counting. All within 5 feet of the trail. Lame Don't go to Chamonix. Quote
AlpineK Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 What's wrong with burning tp. It's easy to do. You should always have a lighter with you anyway.( be prepared and all ) Like Matt said, you may not want to try this in August in Levenworth, but it works well. Quote
catbirdseat Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 What's wrong with burning tp. It's easy to do. You should always have a lighter with you anyway.( be prepared and all ) Like Matt said, you may not want to try this in August in Levenworth, but it works well. What was that Robert Duval quote from Apocalypse Now? "I love the smell of burning tp in the morning!" Quote
plexus Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 I have found flagging to be useless way more often than useful. When you're in the brush, you look for any signs of a trail, find flagging, and find yourself on a steep forested dropoff (happened several times). I trust my instincts. As for those poorly scratched out trails in brush, if they're poorly scratched out, then they really aren't going to be a much better alternative than just romping through the Devil's Club. As for shit and TP, scrambled legs, do us all a community service and go burn all the TP you find, that way it will be gone and you'll be happy, and you'll be gone burning TP, and we'll be happy not to hear your sad, sad comparisons. Quote
scrambled_legs Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 You do know that TP will break down immediately following the first rainfall which, if it isn't at the present, will be within 15min if you live on the west coast. This is simply not true and you know it. Toilet paper can be recognizable as such for up to two years even in the wettests of forests. Either burn it, bury it, or pack it out, but don't leave it lying around for me to look at. Wow you guys are hardcore!! Do you really pack it out??? I can see burning the urinated paper but the ass wipe?? That is foul, I mean it smells bad enough when its not on fire, I can only imagine. Am I the only one on here that just buries it and doesn't feel bad? How are the other climbers supposed to know what territory is yours if you remove all your scents??? Quote
chucK Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 SL, Why do you urinate on your TP? Don't pee on the TP then burn it. Most of it will burn up. The shit-covered part won't, but that blends in pretty well. Quote
Dru Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 how do you burn tp after ou have urinated on it anyway? what kind of STD do you have scrambled leggo, that you have to wipe after you pee? Quote
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