marylou Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Um, it's my understanding the guy was skiing on alpine gear. If that is the case, he wouldn't assume he would need any survival gear. Duh. Or a beacon, since he was skiing alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 i think the only lesson to be learned here is that everyone should carry a lighter and burnables while skiing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 i think the only lesson to be learned here is that everyone should carry a lighter and burnables while skiing. Because it's so easy to start a fire on top of snow, in the winter. And keep it going with all that ncie dry wood. Dig a snow cave. Try and walk out. Fire's when caught out are overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I think he's thinking of different burnables cj001f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Lummox's point went way over your head there pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 http://summit-at-snoqualmie.com/winter/alpental.html *Backcountry Terrain The backcountry is outside the designated ski area boundary and the terrain is rugged, steep and avalanche prone at all times. For backcountry registration and current conditions, contact the Ski Patrol at the top of Edelweiss Chair lift. Beware, Alpental is a Class "A" avalanche area and avalanche beacons, probes, shovels and knowledge of the backcountry terrain are STRONGLY recommended. If someone told you this, would you ignore it and assume the safety of the BC? Is the backcountry area at baker any different? Are most of you BC travelers out there so stupid that you would not carry such equipment if you knew that you were going to go into the BC? And to assume that the conditions were "okay" that day is a totally idiotic statement. Remind me to NEVER ski with you fools ---------------------------------------- www.mtbaker.us makes this statement: MT. BAKER SKI AREA BACKCOUNTRY POLICY If you leave the ski area boundary into the backcountry or re-enter the ski area from the backcountry, you must have all of the following or you will lose your ski area privileges: 1. Avalanche transceiver and demonstrated ability to use it 2. A partner 3. Shovel 4. Knowledge of the terrain and your route 5. Avalanche knowledge 6. Knowledge of local avalanche conditions; • know this winter’s snowpack layers • know the recent snowfall & type • know current NW Avalanche Center forecast • know today’s weather forecast (snowfall, temperature & visibility) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 1. Avalanche transceiver and demonstrated ability to use it I can hardly wait to have an on-the-spot beacon test by some volunteer patrol when I go ski there. Sounds like a fun place to ski! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Lummox's point went way over your head there pal. It appears so. To much beer of late. And reading other bb's where people seriously advocate carrying fire starting equipment in winter as safety gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 The first ten years of winter mountaineering I did in Montana was without a stove. Didn't see the need. The wood out there is generally dryer by content and you can do a number of things to make a fire on top of snow. You always end up with a warm smokey pit but warm still counts. Out here in wet west Cascade country, it would be a lot harder to build a fire. The wood is usually soaked through before it freezes. You really have to scrounge to find enough decent dry wood to get a fire going well enough to dry out the wet stuff and keep a good fire going through the night. The other option is to carry the combustables mentioned earlier. That way, all the rescuers have to do is listen for the coughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 http://summit-at-snoqualmie.com/winter/alpental.html Are most of you BC travelers out there so stupid that you would not carry such equipment if you knew that you were going to go into the BC? And to assume that the conditions were "okay" that day is a totally idiotic statement. Remind me to NEVER ski with you fools AHHH Blow Me. When it is time for me to go, I hope I am out skiing in the backcountry. What a bunch of control freaks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Scottie, I am told you are an OK guy and I had always assumed I wouldn't mind skiing with you some time. Perhaps, however, I was incorrect. I wouldn't want to hear your lecture if my safety attitude didn't exactly correspond with yours or to have to do things your way and your way only. Lighten up on the righteousness and judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 it's just that i would never want to go out skiing with anyone in the BC if they did not have a shovel to dig my ass out, or a beacon to find me, or a probe. As well as the skills to use them and know the wiser. everyone knows better, it's the same in climbing. do you go out climbing with someone that does not know self rescue or how to save your ass in a bad scenario? this is only my opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 everyone knows better, it's the same in climbing. do you go out climbing with someone that does not know self rescue or how to save your ass in a bad scenario? As a matter of fact, yes I do. I don't mind taking inexperienced climbers climbing and I frequently climb with people who (gasp) haven't practiced "self rescue," or don't have the ten essentials. Most of my climbing partners are not EMT's. Your safety advice is sound, but in my view a rigid adherence to the principles that you promote here is not going to make you safe, nor is it always necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Scotty, your right about the climbing and similarity. I figure wer'e arguing the same point. i will admit upfront that I don't always carry everything I am "supposed" to. I do take what I think I need. When I go with a partner we take what we feel we need or we don't get along too good. Sometimes I epic cause I didn't bring the right shit, sometimes I bring way over just cause I'm taking a newbie that don't know crap. I do think it a little harsh to second guess someone elses decision if ya don't know how he came to makin it. Even if it is true that I was stupid, I don't want to here it without a chance to with my accuser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I dont really see the big deal someone guessed or implied the dude was a goner. Second Scotty get a grip or join the mountaineers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Most of the times I've skied the Alpental bc or Baker for that matter I had no: shovel, transiever, probe poles, or partner. I would advocate that people who go into the bc have a good understanding of avy hazard and a good sense of terrain; however the only way to gain real experience is to go out there and do stuff. Taking classes and reading instructional books help, but to truly know what you're talking about you have to go out and ski. Hopefully you get experience without getting smacked down too hard. PS I hope someday I'll get over being cut from your ski buddy list scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I don't think the deal is about someone thinkin him a gonner. I figured the same, not too many come out after four days of no food or water especially if they started with no gear. for comin out alive and keepin his act together. I see the deal bein about sayin he was stupid for a day of skiin. If we find out later that he went out intending to epic he made a stupid decision, if he was lift skiin and planned on stayin close it wasn't stupid. Let's give him a chance. Hindsight is 20/20 as the man says. Thats how we all learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 everyone knows better, it's the same in climbing. do you go out climbing with someone that does not know self rescue or how to save your ass in a bad scenario? Dude, Aren't you the one who wants to start a guide service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I don't think the deal is about someone thinkin him a gonner. I see the deal bein about sayin he was stupid for a day of skiin. Whatevah.. either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Dude, Aren't you the one who wants to start a guide service? yes, did you need a job instructing avy classes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Dude, Aren't you the one who wants to start a guide service? yes, did you need a job instructing avy classes? I can sense the overwhelming and immense knowledge of mountain saviness within Scott Harder His credentials are rigid and high esteemed as a mountain guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Dude, Aren't you the one who wants to start a guide service? yes, did you need a job instructing avy classes? I can sense the overwhelming and immense knowledge of mountain saviness within Scott Harder His credentials are rigid and high esteemed as a mountain guide. May he have Sandy Hill Pittman as a client Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 pittman? I think she tied into my rope once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 yes, did you need a job instructing avy classes? Snowboarders and Sledders - all slopes are safe! Proceed direct ahead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I retracted my first statement this morning because I thought I was being too hard on Scott. After reading the rest of this crap, I should have left it up. He was skiing in-bounds with downhill gear on and took a wrong turn - simple as that. He grew up skiing there and knew the terrain quite well - apparently he often skied on his own, which a lot of people do and is not that unusual. After reading your Mountie safety rule bullshit from high on your soapbox, I think not skiing with anyone here is a foregone conclusion. And you might think twice about what being a guide is about if you're unwilling to take new climbers and skiers outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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