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missing skier at alpental

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I would look for running water but make do with snow.

 

Light fluffy powder, like we had around new years, has a lot less water in it than consolidated spring snow. There might be some more truth to the water/dehydration thing when it comes to freshiez. I'd still eat the snow.

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Working hard and sweating makes you dehydrated. Water in any form (frozen or liquid) is only good. If you're overheating, eating snow is also a good way to cool down. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

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Indeed, working hard and sweating causes you to use up water. You also lose a lot of water through breathing, and I am speculating that you may also use it during the conversion of food or body fat to body heat or muscular energy. Clearly, excess body heat is a frequent bi-product of exertion, and I doubt that eating snow results in a net-loss when you are warm. However, I don't think this guy was producing excess body heat if his core temperature was in the 80's when he was found. If water is indeed used up in the process of metabolism (nobody here seems to know), his situation may not be analogous to that of the sweating athelete and eating snow might in fact have generated a net loss. Biochemistry is not a simple science and "obvious" truths frequently turn out to be incorrect, though, so even if my "guess" is correct about the use of water in metabolism, there may be some other mechanism or factor that would offset this loss.

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Matt - I don't know all the nitty gritty equations, you are right that metabolism consumes some water but it also generates water through other reactions so there is actually possibly a net gain from a metabolic standpoint. But that will not effect overall hydration status.

 

Dehyration is going to take place at more of a macro level because of breathing, sweating, and elimination.

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Here's something that I have tried, that might help (though don't count on it for 4 days out!).

 

When hiking or whatever, put the snow in your mouth, then inhale through your nose, and exhale through your mouth. The exhalation through the snow melts the snow and doesn't waste any body heat that you aren't already expelling! Mix that snowball up with some Gu and enjoy. grin.gifbigdrink.gif

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That wouldn't do much to hydrate them, but could get you in trouble for sodomy and sexual battery. Go ahead give it a try and see where it gets ya. yellaf.gif

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Dehyration is going to take place at more of a macro level because of breathing, sweating, and elimination.

 

I bet you are quite right about that - even IF my guess about the basis for the urban myth that eating snow dehydrates you is correct, you probably lose more water through breathing, sweating, and elimination than heat production. I'm just wondering if there may be some basis for the old urban myth. (However, wouldn't it be a "wilderness myth," rather than an "urban" one?)

 

P.S. -- If you try that gu and ice trick at the bar, just be sure you are at the right kind of bar and it may be OK.

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Some metabolic processes use water; others produce water. The biggest loss of water in this scenario would be from respiration. The alveoli in the lungs operate in 100% humidity. To maintain this environment, water is lost during exhalation.

 

The main issues with eating snow are:

1) Amount of energy (heat) that must be used to melt it.

2) The voluminous amounts of snow that melt to just a little water.

 

btw - Dan -, if you're reading this site anonymously, and we know you are, there is scientific evidence showing that shoving an ice cube up your ass will shave minutes off your speed-climbing times.

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P.S. -- If you try that gu and ice trick at the bar, just be sure you are at the right kind of bar and it may be OK.

 

Matt, are you talking about those fern bars again? I knew there was something suspect about those innocuous looking places.

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that is what i was wondering. How was this guy moving for four days and never really get anywhere. He dropped down behind denny mt and then made it over one ridge in four days that close to the freeway? The newspaper arts have the absolute minimum amount of info for your everyday dummy who doesn't give a shit. great example of media disinfo. and probably flat out fabrication of some events. I believe something was going on in lost skiers head, but I'm not sure it was all pure survivalist instinct. Maybe something else...

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that is what i was wondering. How was this guy moving for four days and never really get anywhere. He dropped down behind denny mt and then made it over one ridge in four days that close to the freeway? The newspaper arts have the absolute minimum amount of info for your everyday dummy who doesn't give a shit. great example of media disinfo. and probably flat out fabrication of some events. I believe something was going on in lost skiers head, but I'm not sure it was all pure survivalist instinct. Maybe something else...

 

The snow was so deep, you wouldn't have been able to walk far, and it would've taken a lot of work. The visibility sucked and he didn't have much backcountry experience. You can wander around back there in those conditions for days pretty easily.

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I'll confess I haven't read all of this thread but I think this guy is awesome.

 

This guy could suffer his way up a himalayan giant. Kind of like Polish high altitude climbers. Not necessarily talented climbers but instead just able to endure "In the end, we are better at the art of sufferng, and for high altitude, this is everything."- Voytek Kurtyka

Sounds like this Alpental skiier has a Polish name?

------------------

I think it is an amazing story of survival and it would be cool if he could post.

Somebody teach him to self-arrest and invite him to Everest?

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Dan W. persevered, and survived an ordeal up in the snoqualamie backcountry. Does that make him a hero?

 

Any one of us can go hypothermic in the mountains. This guy was sufferring from severe hypothermia, it's no wonder he couldn't find his way out.

 

the progression from mild to severe hypothermia is uncontrollable, Dan W. had virtually no control over his actions by the time SAR got to him (acording to his body temps and an interpretation of the incident.)

 

Dan W. had discarded his skis, ski gloves and even the liners of his ski boots and socks by the time he was found.

 

He was in the depths of hypothermia, NO ONE operates effectively from a hypothermic platform, it usually leads to death without others getting involved, Dan W. was unable to get himself out of the woods at some time in his ordeal...even mild hypo causes confusion and stumbling, by the time a persons core temp reaches 90 degrees they are unable to walk or even stand for extended periods.

 

This fella is exceptionally lucky, going hypo is out of your control once in the grips of it, delusion prevents self preservation while hypothermic.

 

Tree wells look really inviting. There's nothing more comforting while going hypothermic than just laying down and taking a little nap. Trouble is, you may not wake up.

 

My (late) read on this incident.

Edited by Beck

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i just want to say sar did not find him, the alpental ski patrol did and they should be given due credit.

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i just want to say sar did not find him, the alpental ski patrol did and they should be given due credit.

 

Well, if you want to get technical, it was a Seattle Mountain Rescue member, riding in a King County Helicopter who first spotted him, and the ground team that got there was two Ski Patrolers & a Mt. Rescue guy.

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What I heard from my three friends, the first three guys to find him was the helicopter found the tracks. No one in the copter actually saw daniel. My buddies followed tracks around almost all day before they found him.

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