dryad Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 source: http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/2003/10/01/marlowe/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No intercourse, please -- we're enlightened Sensitive, feminized and resentful, today's young men no longer have the sexual authority to please a woman -- no matter how much oral sex they perform. - - - - - - - - - - - - By Ann Marlowe Oct. 1, 2003 | It was after seeing "Thirteen" and noticing the display rack of handcuffs at Sam Goody on Sixth Avenue that it hit me: The polymorphously perverse, gender-is-just-a-construct future that radical feminists and academics used to dream of has actually arrived. Men no longer have any authority, either in their own eyes or in women's, the genders are distinguished socially mainly by stuff they buy, and eroticism has fled from the bedroom to the store. It's sexier for most of us to go shopping than to make love, and so we do. As a friend said when I told her I'd spent much of the weekend in bed with a man, "Who has time for that? The weekend is the only chance I have to do my shopping." And handcuffs -- well, seeing them at Sam Goody made me wistful. Once upon a time, you could still shock a guy by pulling them out. I suspect that there's a connection between the collapse of masculine authority and the mainstreaming of S/M; neither gender is too good at distinguishing power and authority, and nostalgia for male authority can translate into fetishizing symbols of power. Women secretly want men with authority, but they fall for insecure passive-aggressive guys who view every aspect of life as a power struggle, or for cranky killjoys or petty sadists. The collapse of the patriarchy was supposed to make women happy -- we were supposed to get more sex, freer sex, better sex, more loving sex and better relations between men and women. If you went to an Ivy League college in the last 20 years or had a professor who did, you probably heard something about this. But instead men treat women worse than ever, women are retreating to 1950s notions that sex is something men like, and the nearly successful effort to stamp out gender contrast has made upper-middle-class American sex miserably dull, with or without handcuffs. Men and women are just too much alike stylistically now for much erotic energy to arise from their conjunction. This is especially true of those in their 20s. Here's a relevant confession: Ever since I've been in my early 30s I've tended to date younger men. I'm now 45, and in the last five years I haven't been able to get interested in men in their 20s, no matter how cute or buff. Men in their 20s -- well, the Ivy League, professional sorts I meet, with their yoga classes and exquisite sensitivity about treating a woman any differently from a man -- just aren't masculine enough to be bedable. Thus the legacy of two decades of feminism in academia. Younger people have bought into the idea that your lover or spouse is a friend of the opposite sex -- although one who will exhibit bad manners you wouldn't expect from your friends' pets, much less your friends. The bad manners and androgyny go hand in hand; along with the erotic aura, tenderness and respect have disappeared. These young guys feel free to admit to physical fears, grooming preoccupations and social anxieties their fathers had the good sense to conceal, if they had them. They dress like overgrown toddlers, in oversize T-shirts and baggy pants, clothing that begs you not to take them seriously as grown-ups. They're pussy-whipped and tamed by 30, but just below the surface they seethe with hostility and resentment at women, because they're quite aware that their girlfriends or wives treat sex as a commodity to be doled out in return for something better. Neither the young men nor the young women enjoy it as much as they were told they would. Maybe the situation is worse for the women because, after all, it's the men who are more like women, not the women who are more like men. The women have won, if you've won when you have worse sex than your grandmother did. Secretly they don't find these men very exciting, either. And they don't feel feminine when they're with them. What does "feminine" mean anyway, besides the result of a lot of grooming rituals drag queens can do too? Maybe it means having a baby. Sex is for corralling a man long enough to secure a "commitment" and then a baby. The new joylessness: Talk with someone in their 20s about marriage and they bring in the word "work" in the first three minutes. I didn't think like that when I was with a man for seven years in my 20s, and I don't recall that my friends did either. This "work" goes along with the ubiquitous use of the word "relationship" in the romantic sphere, a word first used for a sexual connection in 1944, according to the OED; before that it was only used in a business context. And now that the patriarchy's gone, everything isn't pleasure, as radical theorists imagined, but business. It makes perfect sense that the most popular sex act among younger people is oral sex, which lends itself so well to exchange. One for you, one for me. Check any online dating service and you'd have the impression that the male sex organ was the tongue. A recent scan revealed that of the 4,108 men on Craig's List seeking women for "casual encounters," 209 used the word "fuck" in their ads, 219 referred to their "tongue" and 363 to their "oral" predilections. Heaven knows what the rest of them planned to do in bed. Oral sex is what American women say they want, and they have their men trained to do it, but do either men or women really prefer it to intercourse? No one dares say it, but the clitoral orgasm might be as much a myth as the vaginal -- or as little. If you return to the original article that debunked the idea that women enjoy fucking, Anne Koedt's "The Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm" (1970), you'll notice that she gave no medical evidence for her belief that the clitoris rather than the vagina is the source of female sexual pleasure. You'll also notice that she has a strong aversion to the vagina. It's one thing to say that women only have clitoral orgasms, but one doubts the sanity of someone who writes that "women need no anesthesia inside the vagina during surgery." Who's first in line for that? My bet is that just as many or more women have orgasms from fucking as from oral sex while many others don't have either and fake them. That's right, they fake the clitoral orgasms their boyfriends congratulate themselves on having the sensitivity to bestow. If we're ready to believe that many women fake vaginal orgasms, even over many years with their husbands, why are we so sure some women don't fake their clitoral orgasms too? It's likely that many men believe they can tell more easily that way -- and that, not some extraordinary new access to kindness and generosity, might be the source of the new male "enthusiasm" for oral sex. But pin them down and they'll admit they can't be sure. Meanwhile, women who have orgasms from being fucked have learned to be quiet about it. Fucking is a suspect preference these days, as handcuffs used to be; after all, everyone knows that penetration is politically incorrect, involving all sorts of issues of gender difference and dominance and submission. Women who want a man to do what only a man can do in bed have to stick to over-40s or men from the Third World who haven't heard that they're supposed to pretend to like cunnilingus. But most American men have to pretend if they want to get laid, just as many women over the millennia have pretended to enjoy intercourse. Nothing I say is meant to deny that oral sex is pleasurable for some people to give as well as to receive. But cunnilingus can be interpreted just as fucking can and neither is simple. Each has a cultural role. And just as some people like fucking partly for its cultural baggage, some people like cunnilingus for its associations or its lack of them. The new American ideal is an equal relationship, satisfying our craving for justice and for simplicity. When I hear American women in their 20s and early 30s talk about their boyfriends, they seem preoccupied with whether they do 50 percent of the dishes and whether they spend 50 percent of the time talking about their problems and anxieties. Of course this is compensation for years of institutionalized unfairness, but it also sounds a lot like a defense against the powerful feelings they have for the men they love. And so with oral sex. It fits the 50-50 ethos better than fucking. It also fits our new suspicion of deep emotions. Another reason fucking is out of fashion is that it makes us feel too much. Part of the appeal of oral sex -- and why it is rapidly becoming a favorite of teenagers -- is that it's lite sex. No one loses control, loses track of where they are, forgets that music is playing, screams, or weeps, when someone performs oral sex on them. But fucking stirs deep emotions that go to our core as animals and humans. And with the absence of tenderness and trust between men and women, we're more and more inclined to banish deep emotion from our post-patriarchal lives. What's often lost in the insistence on equality is quality -- how the people feel about each other, how much love they can give each other. We now feel queasy about the romantic language of our ancestors, who used the metaphors of slavery and devotion unabashedly. But is there another language with which to speak of love? Love does involve two people putting themselves in the power of each other. We've forgotten that what we are looking for between men and women is fairness and compassion, not identity, and there can be justice between people who acknowledge that their balance of power is unequal. The heterosexual act of love does involve women putting themselves literally in the power of men. And we no longer trust enough to do so. salon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 This is especially true of those in their 20s. Here's a relevant confession: Ever since I've been in my early 30s I've tended to date younger men. I'm now 45, and in the last five years I haven't been able to get interested in men in their 20s, no matter how cute or buff. Men in their 20s -- well, the Ivy League, professional sorts I meet, with their yoga classes and exquisite sensitivity about treating a woman any differently from a man -- just aren't masculine enough to be bedable. obviously ann marlowe is not registered poster on www.cougardate.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 YOu got me thinkin about those college days again: Book The stuff you have to read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 i think a majority of the women who are going shoping are doing so cause the need to find new ways to hide there ever increasing ass, think about it this excludeds climbing and other athletic women cause they know there sexy specally in there tight ass larca. and how many climbing women would rather go shoping than send the week end haveing sex and/or climbing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 damn, dryad, you aren't hanging out with the right men.. but yes, sexual identity, values and politics are seriously messed up... last night i was at my favorite bar and a table of young twenty something "lesbian identified" young women looked like they were having the worst time of any table at the night club... i particularily am worried about gender bending in todays youth society perhaps posioning normal human development.. not that i have a problem with gender bending personally, just if ten year old kids do it that saw it on Buffy the VS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Luna Bars are to blame for feminizing the men that eat them with intense bursts of plant based xenoestrogen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 This is especially true of those in their 20s. Here's a relevant confession: Ever since I've been in my early 30s I've tended to date younger men. I'm now 45, and in the last five years I haven't been able to get interested in men in their 20s, no matter how cute or buff. Men in their 20s -- well, the Ivy League, professional sorts I meet, with their yoga classes and exquisite sensitivity about treating a woman any differently from a man -- just aren't masculine enough to be bedable. Phew, I've got some chance after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Yes women gained much in their drive for liberation. Little attention is paid to what they LOST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacierdog Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I hate all this shit. I'm moving back to Alaska and starting a harem. Who's in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 whats a harem? i'm down to move to alaska though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Without meaning to be too much of an asshole for generalizing, I find too many American Woman want their cake and eat it too. They become a feminist as easily as they become an environmentalist, yet they don't really live the paradigm. This is true for many housewives: they want equality and still refuse to be employed, mow the lawn, paint the house and do other "man" chores. The biggest problem with being a feminist and sex is that most think extraordinary (kinky) sex is "dirty." They also condemn pornography and all who enjoy it. What is worse is many probably don't really think that way, but don't admit it. A recent survey of men and woman revealed that something like 20% of married men admited to having an affair and 10% of woman. (these #'s may not be accurate, it is the difference between genders I'm referring to). But given the absolute quarantee of annonimity in taking the survey, the woman's % rose to 18%. They lie to us, but worse lie to themselves. I appreciate woman who can talk honestly, candidly and openly about their sexual feelings. I also appreciate woman who don't chastise men for doing the same instead of feigning being insulted or shocked because it's "PC". Fuck PC, fuck mediocrity, fuck lieing! Eschew the dominant paradigm! When I look at a woman, I can decide in .06 seconds whether I would want to have sex with her. Is that shallow? Perhaps. But I think men have a much easier time than American women seperating love or at least some form of "attachment" from sex. I had some pretty refreshing conversations this summer with a european woman who was born an American. She confirmed most of what I have said. She too finds American woman have a very unique attitude towards sex. Dryad, you brought up this subject, what do you have to say????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryad Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 (edited) OK, here's my take. I think that as soon as sex is treated as anything other than a rompin' good time (for example, as a commodity or as a political statement), all sorts of bad things happen. People's feelings get hurt and the relationship enters a downward spiral of passive-aggressive back and forth bullshit. I also think that everything is too damn complicated and people should just be honest. I have no desire to go back to the 50's but there is something to be said for a time when a guy could just go up to a girl and say "I think you're neat, want to go out for a chocolate malt?" And I do consider myself a feminist, BTW. And I also think that porn is fine, kink is cool, and Luna bars are yummy. Edited October 3, 2003 by dryad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 "I think you're neat, dryad. Do you want to go out for a chocolate malt?" there's one guy i know... he's not afraid of being a male that WILL knock your socks off, if you'd let me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babnik Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 "i dont want saaaahmone to love me... just give me sex whennnnnnever ah want it." uh huh. pretty much sums up my take on sexual politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 A woman needs a reason. A man just needs a place. Those were the good old days because all you had to do was tell her what she pretended she wanted to hear and you got what you wanted. In those days, every girl could still hear the echos of Mom and Dad talking about what a slut was. We were all sluts by that definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 This link was on the Netscape Home Page Today: Women's Top Sexual Fantasies By Patty Lamberti Women may not be as turned on by pornography as men are, but the visual images in their heads sure get them hot. Before you read further, remember that what a woman fantasizes about isn't necessarily something she wants to happen in reality. Fantasies are safe. Reality isn't always. Here are most women's top 6 sexual fantasies: * Getting it on with a coworker. Women, more than men, are aware that very bad things can happen if you have sex with a coworker. So unless alcohol is involved, they often leave office sex to their imagination. So if you catch a woman staring at her desk, she may not be thinking of a report she has to do, but rather having hot, raunchy sex there with a colleague. * Being watched by a voyeur. Women get off on the idea of being watched, and lusted after, by unknown persons through a window. It's why Alfred Hitchcock's Rear Window was so popular. * Having sex with multiple people. Sometimes in her fantasy they're strangers, sometimes people she knows. Sorry guys. Just because she fantasizes about this doesn't mean she wants to get it on with another woman in reality. * Having random sex with a stranger. In this fantasy, she's walking down the street, and randomly stops to willingly have sex with a tall, dark, unknown man. * Being tied up/tying someone else up. S/M (and fantasizing about s/m) is about playing with power in a relationship. * Being videotaped. Like the voyeur fantasy, she may visualize being caught naked on camera, either knowingly or unknowingly. Why do you need to know what's going on in a woman's head? Because maybe it's something she'd like to try in reality (ask first). Or maybe it's something she wants you to talk dirty about while you have sex. A woman's fantasies are certainly not limited to these six. Each woman has her peccadilloes. No matter what a woman dreams up, she's not a freak. Copyright 2003 Fun Online Corporation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Sorry guys. Just because she fantasizes about this doesn't mean she wants to get it on with another woman in reality. WHATEVER! I love that shit..if I could just find a busty blonde to get it on with me and the guy I am currently fucking , I would be a very happy woman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 babnik said: "i dont want saaaahmone to love me... just give me sex whennnnnnever ah want it." uh huh. pretty much sums up my take on sexual politics. "What do I want most in a girl? ME."-the BloodHound Gang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 My coworker Dianes' favorite saying. "Boys are assholes, where are my lesbian pills." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryad Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 That reminds me of a friend of mine... She'd go out with some guy, break up, decide she hates guys, go out with some girl, break up, decide she hates girls, go out with some other guy... etc. She cycled through this at least a dozen times by now. I'm sure she's legitimately bi, but the bottom line is that she just has bad taste in mates, regardless of what gender they happen to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 glacierdog said: I hate all this shit. I'm moving back to Alaska and starting a harem. Who's in? me too...not the alaska thing, just the harem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Isn't it easier for a woman to start a harem in Alaska?...hmmm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I think that article is bs and the author is an angry cynic. If any of that was 1/2 true it would be so depressing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Seen on the cover of O Magazine "Younger men... try one today." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 1. FAT 2. UGLY 3. ANNOYING 4. HELPLESS THESE ARE THE TRAITS THAT DONT GETCHA LAID, LAIDES. IF YOU FEEL YOU REPERSENT ANY OF THE 4 ABOVE MENTIONED "QUALITIES" THEN PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMPLAINING AND JUST CHANGE! THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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