b-rock Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 So all these accident posts are making me think about my first aid experience (or lack thereof). I've seen a few close calls now (climbing and otherwise) and have been first on the scene for a few potentially bad situations. All of these have turned out well, with good help that was able to respond quickly. But this will not always be the case, and as my climbing progresses, so will the danger for myself and my partners. The thought of being in a serious situation and not knowing what to do would be really hard on me. Arguably it is irresponsible to climb in remote places and not to have some of formal training? I guess I'm wondering what level of training everyone here has, and how it has suited them in real world scenarios. Wilderness First Aid? First Responder? Just CPR? Suggestions on where to get training? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Great thought in light of this seasons injured list. Try visiting the local Fire Station or Search & Rescue Units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 (edited) I took this Wilderness First Aid course. twas a 2 day class that I've found most helpful, more for peace of mind than for anything else....yet In my opinion, the basic Red Cross first aid class is just about useless in the back country where 911 summoned first responders can't reach you within 15 or 20 minutes. The class I took was held in the Seattle area, sponsored by one of the alpine clubs, but open to the gen pub to fill out the class size. Edited August 27, 2003 by Thinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopah Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 (edited) While CPR is beneficial for everywhere else there is EMTs and Paramedics to back it up, it won't help much when your miles into the wilderness. Trust me on that one... A good start would be the MOFA course (mountaineers) or just basic first aid course would help. Call the local FD or Red Cross for class dates and locations. Or better yet do a web search for wilderness first aid classes...Im sure they have them down your way... Edited August 27, 2003 by Coopah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I had, but let lapse, a 40 hr wilderness focussed first aid course. Now I am trying to do a 90 hr course, for Ski Ptrol type stuff. I really liked my course, and thought that it was well thought out in terms of actual wilderness scenarios. Lots of planning and improvising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 If you're not going on expeditions or working in the backcountry, W. First Responder is prob. overkill. It's expensive and time-consuming, though it is fairly comprehensive. Unfortunately half of the stuff you learn to treat relies on a rapid evac. So you have someone in big trouble on a big mountain, the difference between WFA and WFR is that both know the guy's in deep, but the WFR knows why. (You realize the guy's got increasing ICP via BP and attitude, but what really are you going to do with your WFR skills? Cut a hole in his skull?) WMI or WMA's WFA is a good 3-day course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncascademtns Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Coopah said: While CPR is beneficial for everywhere else there is EMTs and Paramedics to back it up, it won't help much when your miles into the wilderness. Trust me on that one... A good start would be the MOFA course (mountaineers) or just basic first aid course would help. Call the local FD or Red Cross for class dates and locations. I knew you would respond on this one. Yes, there will be no backup in the field (mountains). Basic CPR/First Aid or First Responder would be beneficial but beyond that, you would need the special equipment that no one would be carrying. One more good one would be the Wilderness First Aid Course that some of the guide services sponser. A little more in depth than the MOFA course that the Mountaineers teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopah Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Of course I would respond...I'm an EMS guru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopah Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 iain said: the difference between WFA and WFR is that both know the guy's in deep, but the WFR knows why. (You realize the guy's got increasing ICP via BP and attitude, but what really are you going to do with your WFR skills? Cut a hole in his skull?) WMI or WMA's WFA is a good 3-day course. Right on the money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Cool. I see another round of Mountie bashing coming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 wilderness first aid? yea. if they not breathing start it. if they bleeding stop it. if they broke it make em walk to the trailhead. even better dont get fucking hurt in the backcountry. next stupid question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Wilderness Medicine Training Center Beck could sponsor a WFA class during the Rope-a-Dope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopah Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 lummox said: wilderness first aid? yea. if they not breathing start it. if they bleeding stop it. if they broke it make em walk to the trailhead. even better dont get fucking hurt in the backcountry. next stupid question? Easy to say what needs to be done...a whole other experience to actually have to treat a friend or loved one that is mangled up in your arms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Coopah said: lummox said: wilderness first aid? yea. if they not breathing start it. if they bleeding stop it. if they broke it make em walk to the trailhead. even better dont get fucking hurt in the backcountry. next stupid question? Easy to say what needs to be done...a whole other experience to actually have to treat a friend or loved one that is mangled up in your arms... whatever. i have dealt with mangled friends. and the overriding emotion i felt was anger. yea. fucking PISSED that they fucked themselves up. but i spose your the sensitive type. i reckon theres a story behind your comment too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 WAC WFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopah Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I have probably seen more trauma than you will in your lifetime. I am surprised anyone climbs with you if all you do is get pissed they got hurt. Did Mommy & Daddy not love you enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I have taken, and keep a current certification, in the WFA course offered by NOLS. It is a 3-day course, but they compress it to 2 days at my club's request. Certification is good for 2 years, and I require it in order to keep current in my mountain rescue unit, although I originally signed up for the same reasons as you, b-rock. It is a good starter course, and, unless you are going to become part of a guide service or be out for extended periods, should do you just fine in the "typical" backcountry accident. Others have said many accidents require evac, and they're right. If you aren't prepared for an evac, either by training or in manpower, the guy's pretty much toast anyway, even if you know why. I could list several times it's come in handy, but three biggies were when I reduced a dislocated shoulder, closed a nice knife slice into the inside of a guy's leg (whittling injury), and readied an anaphylactic shock (bees) victim for evac. I know, nothing real tragic, but it was handy to be the one to know what to do AND how to do it. Skip the Red Cross class; it's just about CPR and calling 911 (unless you don't know CPR, then at least learn that). Go here instead and see if this is more of what you're looking for. Good luck, and good on you for thinking ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 snoboy said: I had, but let lapse, a 40 hr wilderness focussed first aid course. Now I am trying to do a 90 hr course, for Ski Ptrol type stuff. Ski Patrol stuff (OEC) is roughly equivalent to an EMT-B course - and EMT-B courses are available at most community colleges. It's over/underkill though - you won't have the tools/knowledge to do much in the field. Probably best just to go for a 2-3 day course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Coopah said: I have probably seen more trauma than you will in your lifetime. I am surprised anyone climbs with you if all you do is get pissed they got hurt. Did Mommy & Daddy not love you enough? there aint no mom or dad at the orphanage mother fucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Coopah said: I have probably seen more trauma than you will in your lifetime. more than one time at band camp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopah Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 lummox said: Coopah said: I have probably seen more trauma than you will in your lifetime. more than one time at band camp? Good one - if I only played a musical instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 First Responder Took a health class in school last year and had no idea I was getting trained to be a FR. Pretty cool though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 cj001f said: snoboy said: I had, but let lapse, a 40 hr wilderness focussed first aid course. Now I am trying to do a 90 hr course, for Ski Ptrol type stuff. Ski Patrol stuff (OEC) is roughly equivalent to an EMT-B course - and EMT-B courses are available at most community colleges. It's over/underkill though - you won't have the tools/knowledge to do much in the field. Probably best just to go for a 2-3 day course. I took an EMT course and it's a lot of fun. Some may say you can't do anything with the knowledge in the field but I disagree. BLS is exactly that-- basic life support. There are so many simple things you can learn in an EMT course that, when put together, give you as a first responder enough skill and knowledge to keep your patient alive. Learn to adapt and overcome. It's what climbers do everytime we go out into the mountains and a medical emergency presents us with another type of challenge. Be prepared for it through training and practice. It's not a question of if you will see a medical emergency in the field, but when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Matt said:I took an EMT course and it's a lot of fun. Some may say you can't do anything with the knowledge in the field but I disagree. BLS is exactly that-- basic life support. There are so many simple things you can learn in an EMT course that, when put together, give you as a first responder enough skill and knowledge to keep your patient alive. I definitely agree with you that an EMT/OEC gives you a new range of skills - and if nothing else, a much firmer grip on the basics (bandaging is somewhat useful to practice). If your short on time (who isn't?) a 2-3 day course is better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpongeBob Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 as a emt i would rather leave my trauma bag in the truck and carry my radio or a cell phone so i could call for help rather than ending up cutting off body parts to free myself. all the training and supplies wont do shit if you cant get out in a short amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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