catbirdseat Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 This topic came up in another thread actually. This is something they don't teach in climbing courses, but which is something people pick up, I guess. I haven't had to do it myself, but I have always been prepared for, especially on slab climbs where you have a little more time in a fall. Generally, I figure I can get at least an arm length of rope back through my belay device before locking off, but how does one get more than that without risk of losing the belay. Any advice? Quote
Coopah Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 I think trying to "reel" someone in is a dangerous habit. Falls happen so quick that you have just enough time to process what is happening and lock the belay and little else. Why risk having the rope rip through your hand? Also why reduce the amount of rope available to absorb energy??? The only reason I can think of is to prevent hitting ground or a ledge - but then either the belayer is introducing too much slack or the leader isn't placing pro properly. I wouldn't advocate trying to reel anyone in...just lock the rope!!! Quote
catbirdseat Posted August 25, 2003 Author Posted August 25, 2003 What if you are using a GriGri? Quote
Sphinx Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 I've been hurt on overhanging terrain when my belayer didn't leave enough slack in the system. I peeled from a roof, and smacked into the wall below it. Sprained ankle, , sucked. Unless you're climbing some very runout low-angled slabs, don't worry about reeling in rope. Quote
Bug Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 I'm not trying to flame anyone here. It seems like there are some opinions above that blanket a lot more circumstance than is reasonable. I have had my life saved by two separate reels and have saved a few lives that way myself. Every situation is different. Even in the same place, as the leader climbs, there may be times when reeling is good and times when it is not. It is a skill based on judgement and can only be improved with experience. Discuss it at each belay ledge. If you are leading and see a place where reeling seems appropriate, inform your belayer. "Be ready to reel." was a common instruction amoung my old climbing buddies. There is no way to sit here and say 'reel' or 'don't reel'. Hope this helps. Quote
hakioawa Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 I think the answer to this question is, it all depends. Somone will note that you can (at least theoretically) create fall factors greater than 2. 20' of rope out w/ no pro from the anchor. The leader falls. Belayer reels in 10' of slack. 30' fall/ 10' or rope = a FF or 3. Â On the other hand a climber 4 bolts up on a low angle run out bolted slab using a gri-gri. The gear is good so reel away. Â Then somone will state you want a "dynamic belay" which is kinda the oppisite of reeling in. Â So I don't think there are any hard and fast rules here. Use you head, and don't fall unless the gear is good. Good gear and dangerous fall consequences (i.e. you will deck) = reel. Sketchy gear and a clean fall = no reel. Â My $0.02 worth Quote
jkrueger Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 catbirdseat said: What if you are using a GriGri? Under what circumstances does one use a GriGri to provide a lead belay? In my limited experience, quickly feeding large amounts of slack with a GriGri is not an easy task. When a leader wants slack, they want it now!!! and in those situations a GriGri seems to work against me more than it works with me. Quote
Sphinx Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 To feed rope fast with a grigri, the only possible method is to hold the cam down with one hand and pull rope though the device with the other. Just make sure to let go of the cam if the climber falls! Quote
Retrosaurus Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 Hope you guys figure this out soon. I think I'm gonna' peel. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 i am scared to go climbing with you guys! shiat! Quote
sk Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 I was under the impression that you shouldn't realy have a lead climber on a gri-gri, that ATC was a better choice. Quote
Sphinx Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: I was under the impression that you shouldn't realy have a lead climber on a gri-gri, that ATC was a better choice. Â Why? GriGris are fine for sport routes. If you are anchored to the ground, though, a grigri can increase forces on your gear as there is no slippage in the system. Don't worry about it for sport climbing. Quote
Gary_Yngve Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 catbirdseat said: This topic came up in another thread actually. This is something they don't teach in climbing courses, but which is something people pick up, I guess. I haven't had to do it myself, but I have always been prepared for, especially on slab climbs where you have a little more time in a fall. Generally, I figure I can get at least an arm length of rope back through my belay device before locking off, but how does one get more than that without risk of losing the belay. Any advice? Â If you're not anchored in (i.e. on flat flat ground) you can run... if you are anchored in and standing, you can squat. Quote
chucK Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 Coopah said: The only reason I can think of is to prevent hitting ground or a ledge - but then either the belayer is introducing too much slack or the leader isn't placing pro properly. Â You live in a simple world Coopah. How many times have you been climbing outside of the gym? Quote
Figger_Eight Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 If you run backwards you risk zippering out the first couple of pieces from the bottom up Quote
Coopah Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 Gyms suck... I actually live in the real world and have seen tests done where a 1kn load was dropped and before the person belaying could lock a munter hitch, it was burning his gloved hand and couldn't hold it. Guess what - the load hit the ground  I would have to actually see this "reeling in" done or try it myself with a dead load before believing it would ever work...my hunch it doesn't  Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 Coopah said: Gyms suck... I actually live in the real world and have seen tests done where a 1kn load was dropped and before the person belaying could lock a munter hitch, it was burning his gloved hand and couldn't hold it. Guess what - the load hit the ground  I would have to actually see this "reeling in" done or try it myself with a dead load before believing it would ever work...my hunch it doesn't  i am amazed at the ignorance on this thread... Quote
Coopah Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 chucK said: Coopah said: The only reason I can think of is to prevent hitting ground or a ledge - but then either the belayer is introducing too much slack or the leader isn't placing pro properly. Â You live in a simple world Coopah. How many times have you been climbing outside of the gym? Â Yes the world is simple...people make it complicated You have a better explanation of why you would need to reel in the rope? I am all ears! Quote
bDubyaH Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 That's why I run sideways. Or just alpine climb...nowhere to run 1000' of the deck at a hanging belay. Quote
chucK Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 I was responding to your implication that if a leader is in danger of hitting a ledge then either the belay or the protection is improper. Â It sounds like that's what you were saying, and if so, it shows that you haven't climbed very many pitches in the real world. Quote
Coopah Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: Coopah said: Gyms suck... I actually live in the real world and have seen tests done where a 1kn load was dropped and before the person belaying could lock a munter hitch, it was burning his gloved hand and couldn't hold it. Guess what - the load hit the ground  I would have to actually see this "reeling in" done or try it myself with a dead load before believing it would ever work...my hunch it doesn't  i am amazed at the ignorance on this thread...  I too am amazed that people actually think this works? Quote
jkrueger Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: i am amazed at the ignorance on this thread... That's the purpose of the Newbies Forum. Quote
Coopah Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 I hear what your saying...I was implying that maybe the pro wasn't spaced properly to begin with or the belayer is lackadaisical in rope management. I know there are just times when shit happens... Quote
Coopah Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 I am open to having someone prove to me that reeling in works. It just seems to me that you only have a split second to act and that if you don't lock off you risk losing your grip from the rope ripping through your hand???? Quote
Phil K Posted August 25, 2003 Posted August 25, 2003 Yeah, I want to see this reeling in shit work too. I doubt if anyone could pull in much rope through any device fast enough to make much difference and still be able to lock off a fall. I especially liked the one about reeling in 10 feet of slack when a leader takes a 20 footer with no pro off the belay. How the heck do you plan on doing that? Quote
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