Rodchester Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 I recently dropped my belay device on a route in the tetons . Yes I am am !!! In many yeras I have never dropped anything of note. Anyway, it (BD ATC) is gone. So the question is what belay device(s) do you recommend and why? It will be used for most all types of climbing, alpine and crag rock. Rapelling (only as required), ice and mountaineering. I was looking at the old BD ATC, new BD ATC, the Reverso, the BRD, and the Trango pyramid, the Trango B-52(?). Any others you would recommend? Thanks in advance ... Quote
erik Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 i have the atc jaws reverso and the pyramid only one that has a different performance is the reverso, but it is essentially the same. i use the atc for gernal cragging and the reverso for multipitch and alpine. the jaws for ice and the other once is in case i drop the rest! Quote
bunglehead Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 I like my Trango pyramid. It dissipates heat really well. The BD ATC is good too. Seems like EVERYBODY has got one of those. Of course for hangdogs a Grigri is good, but spendy. Quote
eric8 Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 i have only used a reverso twice but does anyone find it hard to keep the second or seconds tight with the reverso when they are moving fast over easy terrian? maybe its just a symbol that we should be simul climbing Quote
Sphinx Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 ATC XP looks interesting. I hate the Trango Pyramid. All the tubes work about the same. Haven't tried the reverso. Quote
snoboy Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 Opinions? I got a few of those! ATC = Pryamid = Revreso = B-52 = Having used a Pyramid for years, and a Reverso occasionaly, I recently tried out the B-52 and was so impressed I sold the Pyramid, and will get rid of the Reverso too. It feeds smoother than any device I have tried. It locks up nicely when it is time. It works as an autolock plate on multi pitch. It is lighter than the Reverso. I would even reccomend it to someone who will never use it in autolock mode, something I would never do with the Reverso. It is the all purpose unit! Quote
Stephen_Ramsey Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 (edited) Thumbs up on the Reverso. It is great for alpine stuff with double/twin ropes, thin rope rappels, autolocking belay, etc. One point about the reverso: if you are frequently rapping on it in "high friction" mode (basically using the device backwards), there is a concern about wear on the metal eventually causing a sharp edge to form, that can cut the rope. This particular issue is only with repeated use in the high-friction mode. I imagine this takes a while, but it is something to be aware of, if you choose to use the device in this fashion. The "high friction" mode is great if you choose to rap on thin cord (6 or 7 mm). The BD ATC XP is also great for thin ropes, but a bit heavy. Our system for alpine climbs (works for us, not saying it would make sense for anyone else) is the leader carries a Reverso, and the second carries a ATC XP. Leader then has the choice of belaying the second in "autolocking" fashion, or not, depending on the situation. The extra weight of the Reverso/XP devices is worth it for us, because we are usually climbing with thin ropes (e.g., 8.5 mm double rope system). For the case of climbing on fat ropes exclusively, probably a normal ATC would be better, since it is lighter than the ATC XP. Just my $0.02. Edited August 14, 2003 by Stephen_Ramsey Quote
snoboy Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 Stephen_Ramsey said:One point about the reverso: if you are frequently rapping on it in "high friction" mode (basically using the device backwards), there is a concern about wear on the metal eventually causing a sharp edge to form, that can cut the rope. This particular issue is only with repeated use in the high-friction mode. I imagine this takes a while, but it is something to be aware of, if you choose to use the device in this fashion. The "high friction" mode is great if you choose to rap on thin cord (6 or 7 mm). From other people's experience, I would have to disagree slightly with you hear Stephen. The Reverso has this wear problem that you mention, but it is not only when you use it in High Friction mode. It wears badly even in normal rappel mode, and none too slowly either. I had one friend wear his out in a month of regular use. Quote
iain Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 the edges on the "high-friction" part of the reverso can get razor-sharp. I do not use the high-friction mode anymore for this reason, instead, double up carabiners if needed. or loose some weight. Quote
iain Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 also worth knowing how to jigger the reverso to disengage autolock while weighted in case you need to lower your second. Quote
Stephen_Ramsey Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 (edited) Iain, also worth knowing how to jigger the reverso to disengage autolock while weighted in case you need to lower your second. OK, I'm a dummy. I haven't been able to figure it out. What's the scoop on how to do this? I even (uncharacteristically) read the instructions, but they are written in some insane cartoon language rather than plain English. Thanks, Steve Edited August 14, 2003 by Stephen_Ramsey Quote
snoboy Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 erik said: www.amga.org American Medical Group Association I think you meant .com But I can't find it there either, unless you mean he should take a course??? Stephen, it's not in the instructions. Get someone to show you. Quote
bunglehead Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 Snoboy, thanks for you input. I also need a new device, as my trusty Pyramid is well worn. I was wondering about the B 52. I think I'll pick one up. Quote
b-rock Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 (edited) Another for the B-52. Not as smooth as the Reverso in autoblock (and requires an extra locker), but still works and nice to have the option. Seems to wear no more/less than an ATC. Edited August 14, 2003 by b-rock Quote
slaphappy Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 Stephen_Ramsey said: One point about the reverso: if you are frequently rapping on it in "high friction" mode (basically using the device backwards), there is a concern about wear on the metal eventually causing a sharp edge to form, that can cut the rope. This particular issue is only with repeated use in the high-friction mode. I imagine this takes a while, but it is something to be aware of, if you choose to use the device in this fashion. The "high friction" mode is great if you choose to rap on thin cord (6 or 7 mm). The Reverso SUCKS and in my opinion is dangerous. I used one heavily for about 9 months and had razor sharp edges worn on both sides. I tried another, same bullshit. I also found that it locks up when there is any wear on the HMS carabiner connecting it to your harness. I use an HB Sheriff as my main device with an ATC backup (free at the base of Total Soul ) The HB works the same as an ATC but has a solid retention loop instead of a cable that gets sucked into the device. If your a Reverso user, I would inspect it often and replace it as soon as it turns into a knife! Quote
snoboy Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 b-rock said: Another for the B-52. Not as smooth as the Reverso in autoblock (and requires an extra locker), but still works and nice to have the option. Seems to wear no more/less than an ATC. Hmmm, I feel that my B-52 is smoother than the Reverso. The Reverso also requires an extra locker... Quote
iain Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 Stephen_Ramsey said: What's the scoop on how to do this? Thanks, Steve Here's the scoop, luckily found it online for you: USMGA Reverso Transitions Be sure to practice it first so you don't take someone off belay by accident. Quote
IceIceBaby Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 I have the ATC-XP – Pro: great feed, control, smooth rap, can rigged without taken off the biner Con: hard to belay 2 with it, OK control on single skinny rope rappel, (my preferred rock climbing belay device) ATC- Pro: great feed Con: OK rap, no control, hard to belay 2 with it, bad control on single skinny rope rappel Reverso - Pro: can belay 2 with it Con: jerky feed, bad control, cant rigged without taken off the biner, fast rap, bad control on single skinny rope rappel TrangoB-52 – Pro: can belay 2 with it, can rigged without taken off the biner Con: jerky feed, bad control, OK rap, bad control on single skinny rope rappel Trango Jaws - Pro: great feed, smooth rap, control, can rigged without taken off the biner Con: hard to belay 2 with it, OK control on single skinny rope rappel Metolius BRD – Pro: control, can rigged without taken off the biner, smooth rap Con: jerky feed, hard to belay 2 with it, OK control on single skinny rope rappel OP SBG-II - Pro: great feed, control, smooth rap, can belay 2 with it, great control for single skinny rope rappel, Con: cant rigged without taken off the biner (my preferred Ice/all around belay device) Quote
Eden Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 I've had the catch on ATC's get all twisted up and difficult after alot of use, so a few years ago I bought a Hugh Banner Sheriff. http://www.gearshark.com/finder/details/Hugh-Banner-Sheriff-Belay-Device/details/Hugh-Banner-Sheriff-Belay-Device/7924.html?no_f The catch is metal, and is shaped otherwise like an ATC. This I use primarily for rappelling, because I like a gri gri for all sorts of belaying. I know, I know, a gri gri is heavy, and there's some debate about the potential for shock loading the system when leading with gear. However, after 8 years of climbing on and off, I've known personally of a number of accidents that would have been less tragic if a gri gri was used. It's also really nice to bring your second up with. Just my personal preference. Quote
snoboy Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 How can you rig an ATC or a Reverso without taking it off the biner, but not a B-52? Quote
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