The "Red Zone" Oregon

[ryland_moore]

Saw an image of a boulder climbing here in the summer Mountain Gear catalogue. Where is this place and how is the bouldering? Looks pretty sweet from the photo!

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Ask Logan Carr; he seems to know.

[cj001f]

ryland_moore said:

Saw an image of a boulder climbing

What were you smoking when you saw the boulder climbing?

[ryland_moore]

C'mon DFA, I KNOW you know where it is!!!!!! It has got to be somewhere over near you or near Sisters. It isn't the Sisters bouldering area is it?

[ryland_moore]

Ask Logan Carr; he seems to know.

 

I would, if I knew who he was and how to get a hold of him......

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Naw, DFA doesn't, unfortunately, know where this crimson crag is at. He does, however, know Mr. Carr, who can probably be found at Smith, or more likely out bouldering (hard) around Bend.

[ryland_moore]

Would ya mind asking him where that lovely photo was taken? I guess the Metolius foks would know too as it came from their collection.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Sure. We don't talk much, but next time DFA sees him at Smith, the Doctor will pry the secrets out of Mr. Carr.

 

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAA!

[Fejas]

ryland_moore said:

Would ya mind asking him where that lovely photo was taken? I guess the Metolius foks would know too as it came from their collection.

 

I was just gonna say it was in the Metolius catalog too... it appears to be in a pine grove which would lead me to believe its at a higher, more easternly altidude... could even be in the strawberries, blues, or willouwas... beats the shite outa me though...

[bunglehead]

Fejas said:

ryland_moore said:

Would ya mind asking him where that lovely photo was taken? I guess the Metolius foks would know too as it came from their collection.

 

I was just gonna say it was in the Metolius catalog too... it appears to be in a pine grove which would lead me to believe its at a higher, more easternly altidude... could even be in the strawberries, blues, or willouwas... beats the shite outa me though...

 

I actually posted this same query in the Oregon Cascades section a while back with no takers. I'm thinking it's a super secret place those rat bastards at Metolius don't want to share. I agree with Fejas. East of the crest. Bulo? Near there?

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

It looks just like all the other little welded tuff bouldering areas dotting the landscape around Bend, but more rad. It's probably like 5 minutes from town.

 

Maybe Gaper the Timmy knows something about it. He should, as a Central O resident!

[bunglehead]

Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

It looks just like all the other little welded tuff bouldering areas dotting the landscape around Bend, but more rad. It's probably like 5 minutes from town.

 

Maybe Gaper the Timmy knows something about it. He should, as a Central O resident!

 

Maybe. It aint: bachy village, Meadow Camp, Sisters, or Awbrey. But DFA, you may be right. It may be that new area up skyliner. It's just that the rock looks a little different than the usual dusty, pummy stuff around Bend.

[Distel32]

there is good stuff around Bend!!! Widgi boulders are good, and there is some hard ass stuff there! Plus an awesome dyno.

 

One super good problem down at meadow picnic area.

 

Redzone I heard is just northwest of bend about 30mins..?? Near sisters, just what I heard third hand though, so who knows if it is totally accurate.

[texplorer]

Read my signature.

[Off_White]

Surfing and flyfishing are also valuable, but not legitimate forms of climbing.

[Distel32]

texplorer said:

Read my signature.

 

I'm sorry dude, but if you don't think bouldering and sport climbing are legitimate forms of climbing, you are full of shit. I will not argue about this, because it is just ridiculous. It really saddens me to see anybody take that stance.

[Sphinx]

If bouldering and sport climbing are not climbing, what the hell are they?

[lummox]

hahaha. you stupid fuckers. why would you listen to the opinion of coonyard: 'Bouldering and sportclimbing are valuable, but they are not legitimate forms of climbing'.? fucking dwarves. they think theyr all cool and shit with their misshapen heads.

[Fence_Sitter]

Sphinx said:

If bouldering and sport climbing are not climbing, what the hell are they?

 

training

[texplorer]

Distel32 said:

texplorer said:

Read my signature.

 

I'm sorry dude, but if you don't think bouldering and sport climbing are legitimate forms of climbing, you are full of shit. I will not argue about this, because it is just ridiculous. It really saddens me to see anybody take that stance.

 

I did not say the quote. It is, as I credited it, from Yvon Chouinard -the guy that started black diamond and patagonia and is only one of the most influential climbers ever. The entire quote, which would not entirely fit in the signature box, includes that Yvon thinks that they are not legitmate forms of climbing because they do not contain the risk involved in his definition of climbing. I believe the quote is in the latest isssue of one of the Climb-porn mags if you want to read it for yourself.

 

I personally regard sport climbing and bouldering as forms of our modern definition of climbing but I do eschew a higher status to other forms of climbing due to inherent and unavoidable risks and increased complexity encompassed in them. I am not a trad-elitist, but I get irritated when people claim that bouldering and sport climbing are, on the average, as difficult as trad climbing. Physically I believe they are as or more demanding than a corresponding trad or aid climb but they are much more simple since you are mainly dealing with climbing and don't have to worry about gear. With trad climbing there are the added tasks of hanging whilst placing gear, having to decide when and where to place gear to protect yourself, and accounting for other factors such as rope management through pieces so as not to zipper gear etc. I have seen beginners TR sport .511s with no falls but have yet to see one make it up a true 5.9 handcrack without many hangs.

 

So I guess it depends on how you define climbing. Chouinard obviously believes that climbing is more than moving your body up the rock. I can't say for him for sure but I would guess that his definition requires that a certain level of danger is mandatory as well as a mastery of equipment and techniques inherent with traditional climbing. In his day there was no sport climbing and bouldering was considered training just as working out at a gym. I don't know if I agree that with him that they are not forms of climbing. Bouldering and sport climbing are, by the modern definition the sport, climbing, but they are very different from trad climbing. However, if trad climbing was the original form of "climbing," and they are not trad then you could say they are not climbing.

 

The Texplorer participates in Sport, Trad, Aid, Ice, Alpine, Chossgroveling, Soloing, Mountaineering, and Indoor Bouldering. He finds all these endeavors fun and challenging but very different in style and complexity. He respects people skilled of all the aforementioned disciplines and enjoys being involved with all sports which involve ascension throughout that range. The Texplorer enjoys clean, vertical, unbolted, splitter granite cracks that go for 100's to 1000's of feet. He is glad everyone doesn't like climbing those cracks for whatever reason so as to have them to himself and the select few others like himself. The Texplorer wishes you all happy "climbing" even if your sport isn't really "climbing."

[Fence_Sitter]

The Texplorer wishes you all happy "climbing" even if your sport isn't really "climbing."

 

classic!

[Sabertooth]

I personally regard sport climbing and bouldering as forms of our modern definition of climbing but I do eschew a higher status to other forms of climbing due to inherent and unavoidable risks and increased complexity encompassed in them.

 

So the more risky and complex a form of climbing is somehow makes it a "higher status" eh? Well, then everything would be low level campared to aid. It's funny how you make single pitch trag cragging out to be this complex art form. Plug some cams and nuts into the rock and clip them. I could teach someone very quickly to set up basic anchors, make a directional, and place gear. Sure it takes time to master, but a "higher status of climbing" it is not. I am far more impressed than Distel can send a V7 than another "trad elitist" who can lead Air Guitar.

 

I am not a trad-elitist, but I get irritated when people claim that bouldering and sport climbing are, on the average, as difficult as trad climbing. Physically I believe they are as or more demanding than a corresponding trad or aid climb but they are much more simple since you are mainly dealing with climbing and don't have to worry about gear. With trad climbing there are the added tasks of hanging whilst placing gear, having to decide when and where to place gear to protect yourself, and accounting for other factors such as rope management through pieces so as not to zipper gear etc.

 

More dilusional mumbo jumbo that Trad is somehow so much more complex than other forms of climbing. By your definition, Aid Climbing would be the only true form of climbing then.

 

I have seen beginners TR sport .511s with no falls but have yet to see one make it up a true 5.9 handcrack without many hangs.

 

This is based upon how people train not on inherent difficulties. How many gyms do you know that have good liebacks, off widths, fist jambs, hand jambs, and finger locks for beginner climbers to practice on? I know zero. How many beginners do you see toproping climbs outside that require these skills? I see very few. People tend to get good at face climbing skills first. That is why you might see someone toprope an 11 face, but struggle on a 9 crack. They need to practice those techniques.

 

So I guess it depends on how you define climbing. Chouinard obviously believes that climbing is more than moving your body up the rock. I can't say for him for sure but I would guess that his definition requires that a certain level of danger is mandatory as well as a mastery of equipment and techniques inherent with traditional climbing. In his day there was no sport climbing and bouldering was considered training just as working out at a gym. I don't know if I agree that with him that they are not forms of climbing. Bouldering and sport climbing are, by the modern definition the sport, climbing, but they are very different from trad climbing. However, if trad climbing was the original form of "climbing," and they are not trad then you could say they are not climbing.

 

Actually, climbing techniques were developed to climb mountains. In the late 1400s the French developed some basic climbing techniques to climb Antoine de Ville which was thought to be impossible at the time. The 1700s brought lots of snow, ice, and glacier techniques. Trad techniques were also developed to summit peaks in Alps.

 

If you want to be anal about real forms of climbing, then history says any bouldering, sport, or trag cragging that doesn't involve ascending a mountain is just practice. The true form of climbing is alpine snow, ice, glacier, rock, and mixed. So trad cragging is really just like a football player running the tire drill the day before the big game.

 

The Texplorer participates in Sport, Trad, Aid, Ice, Alpine, Chossgroveling, Soloing, Mountaineering, and Indoor Bouldering. He finds all these endeavors fun and challenging but very different in style and complexity. He respects people skilled of all the aforementioned disciplines and enjoys being involved with all sports which involve ascension throughout that range. The Texplorer enjoys clean, vertical, unbolted, splitter granite cracks that go for 100's to 1000's of feet. He is glad everyone doesn't like climbing those cracks for whatever reason so as to have them to himself and the select few others like himself. The Texplorer wishes you all happy "climbing" even if your sport isn't really "climbing."

 

Just because you clip nuts and cams instead of bolts or pulling hard boulder problems doesn't make it more legitimate. You are indeed dilusional.

[Fence_Sitter]

any bouldering, sport, or trag cragging that doesn't involve ascending a mountain is just practice.

 

exactly

[texplorer]

Sabertooth said:

So the more risky and complex a form of climbing is somehow makes it a "higher status" eh? Well, then everything would be low level campared to aid.

 

No aid doesn't require any free climbing skills at all. You only need to be able to place gear. Bouldering and sport climbing are more about the free climbing skills and little if any skill is needed with gear placement. Trad climbing requires both free climbing and gear placement simultaneously. So you would say that is just as easy as the other two?

 

Sabertooth said:

I could teach someone very quickly to set up basic anchors, make a directional, and place gear. Sure it takes time to master, but a "higher status of climbing" it is not. I am far more impressed than Distel can send a V7 than another "trad elitist" who can lead Air Guitar.

 

I agree that gear placement is not rocket science but ask Anna how easy it is while climbing. Climbing a V7 is very difficult and I am impressed seeing people accomplish such feats. The only reason I give trad climbing a higher status is because one must master multiple skills to be able to climb at the same level. I will probably never climb a V7 but I can say that I think when Thomas Huber pulls a V7 crux 1000ft off the deck runnout on RP's that its a more impressive feat. I'll speak more about this in a minute.

 

 

Sabertooth said: By your definition, Aid Climbing would be the only true form of climbing then.

No, I don't know where you get this. If you really want to make things simple. Here you go

Bouldering- 1chalk, 2climb up, chalk, climb, up-chalk twice, dyno

Sport Climbing- 1Chalk, 2climb up, 3clip draw, 4clip rope 5repeat

Aid- 1place piece, 2climb up aider, 3place piece, 4repeat

Trad- 1chalk up, 2climb up, 3 select size piece 4place piece, 5 clip rope, 6 repeat

 

All very simple but which one has more steps involved?

 

Sabertooth said:This is based upon how people train not on inherent difficulties. How many gyms do you know that have good liebacks, off widths, fist jambs, hand jambs, and finger locks for beginner climbers to practice on? I know zero. How many beginners do you see toproping climbs outside that require these skills? I see very few. People tend to get good at face climbing skills first. That is why you might see someone toprope an 11 face, but struggle on a 9 crack. They need to practice those techniques.

 

I was speaking of people staight off the couch that have NEVER climbed before. I saw a guy on his first day climbing ever climb a .11 with no falls. I have never seen a person on their first day climb a .9 crack. Why do you think people don't get on cracks more on TR. Maybe cause its harder. . .hmmmm. . .

 

Sabertooth said:Actually, climbing techniques were developed to climb mountains. In the late 1400s the French developed some basic climbing techniques to climb Antoine de Ville which was thought to be impossible at the time. The 1700s brought lots of snow, ice, and glacier techniques. Trad techniques were also developed to summit peaks in Alps.

 

If you want to be anal about real forms of climbing, then history says any bouldering, sport, or trag cragging that doesn't involve ascending a mountain is just practice. The true form of climbing is alpine snow, ice, glacier, rock, and mixed. So trad cragging is really just like a football player running the tire drill the day before the big game.

I agree.

 

Sabertooth said:Just because you clip nuts and cams instead of bolts or pulling hard boulder problems doesn't make it more legitimate. You are indeed dilusional.

 

I did not say that I thought other forms of climbing are illegitimate forms of climbing. In fact I insinuated that they are legitimate endeavors as I stated that I participate in them as well. I choose trad (not only single pitch shit either) because I find it the most mentally stimulating. If you don't agree that is fine. I have fun joking about sportos and boulderers and the stereotypes associated with them and even laugh when you make jokes about us "Elitist Tradsters." After all if there weren't you guys we wouldn't have anyone to think we are better than.

 

"Tell that bitch to CHILL!!! Chill honeybunny!" -Pulp Fiction

[Sphinx]

Just go climb. Or ski. Skiing is the only real sport out there.