Dru Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 we are all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Dru said: we are all  Call me a cannibal hater then  Shiska-snaffle is good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: Off_White said: FS, she caught flack? Umm, aren't we in spray here? This is an argument and she opted out, as is her right. Do you think I expect to change your or Caveman's mind? Damn, I'm not that .   well brah... you self proclaimed atheists... say you hate it when people force theri religion on you and when they have their jesus fishes on their cars... but what about when you profess your blatent hatred of anything they stand for... you really cant argue this topic with them as their understanding of the issue is completely different from yours... this is similar to the way that we differ from teh muslims in their pursuit of a holy war... i dont understand how you get so angry about people believing in something you dont... like who cares right? if it is not real, but for them, it is offensive... you are calling something they love more than anything trash... why do you care? if you dont believe in it, how does it hurt you? just wonderin...  He's so anarchly cool that his kids will be satanists That will believe cannibalism of lesbian atheists are the prime meal. then he'll try to convince you how it is PC. and legal to hunt the meals down on the city streets.   Yeah   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Cpt.Caveman said: Dru said: we are all  Call me a cannibal hater then  Shiska-snaffle is good stuff. never look a gift snaffle in the mouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 No Caveman, it would only be acceptable if you called it Soylent Green. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Don't be a simpleton and think people who don't believe in your god lack a belief system. Â Oh wait, never mind the first part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 marylou said: your god did anyone say this no... Â 'anything' i think was the words not 'my God'... but contort away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Fairweather is the kind of conservative I admire, especially for his ability to overcome his visceral reaction to homosexuals and admit that same-sex marriage probably isn't going to hurt anybody. I have a cousin who after high school escaped from a rural farm in E. Wash and moved to San Francisco. Our suspicions were later confirmed. His extremely conservative parents, even his very traditional, manly-man father, continue to love him and welcome him into their home. They and I want him to be happy, to enjoy life as fully as possible, since his early years in a rural community were hell (I believe the ratio is 75% of gay high school students who commit suicide). My wife's cousin came out on Independence Day last summer. Why shouldn't he be allowed to marry another adult, if this is what he desires? What's the harm? Â I heard the issue discussed on a conservative talk show today, and the host suggested that the harm is that he shouldn't have to explain to his own children why two men are holding hands and wearing rings. Doesn't he uderstand that it could be HIS children that pursue this avenue? Having a couple of gay guys in my family made me realize this. Â Cavey, just remember that while you're entitled to your opinions and your vote, you're damn lucky to live in a free country. If you believe in and value this freedom, why would you wish to impose your norms on the private lives of others? All of us have cultural traditions, mostly derived from our parents, which dictate our social behavior and religious practices. We are all, at times, uncomfortable with how our neighbors go about their business. But perhaps there is no greater patriot than he who welcomes or at least tolerates those groups which make him most uneasy. Â Next time you're offended by the mere sight of a gay couple, just remember that you could have been born into this CULTURE . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: Off_White said: I'm a gang of one, caveman. Â you wish... you are as generic as all the countless other clowns on here that ont believe in anything, but bash anyone with any convictions... kitten was as non-confrontational as can be about it and still caught flack... you are no more unique than the kids shopping at abercrombie... your niche is just "fringe" and theirs is "mainstream" its all what group you belong too... i have yet to meet the individual that defies categorization... except cavie... whatever fence....yer right up there w/ falwell as far as categorization!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 I'll join OW's 'gang of one.' Â Pope, your points on this matter make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Nothing that two consenting adults wish to do to, for, or with one another should be illegal so long as their conduct does not injure or infringe upon the rights of others. Gay marriage should not only be legal, but encouraged as a means of forming stable, long-term relationships (families) - a development which would benefit both gays and the remainder of society. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 marylou said: I'll join OW's 'gang of one.' Â Pope, your points on this matter make sense. Pope...despite our disagreements on bolts (a very critical issue to society ) i'm w/ you on this one... Â OW's gang o' one is actually a gang period... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 (edited) Bravo to Off White, Pope, et al. my feelings and beliefs are mine alone but one thing I'll say, visceral or not, is that religion is a dead end street, full of people who need a "team" or a "club" to be at one with themselves. I for one am a member of the human race and respect the ideals and beliefs of the myriad of people I share this planet with. If you're a bigot, then shut the fuck up and move to goddamned Northern Idaho where ya belong. Edited July 31, 2003 by chirp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 JayB said: Nothing that two consenting adults wish to do to, for, or with one another should be illegal so long as their conduct does not injure or infringe upon the rights of others. Gay marriage should not only be legal, but encouraged as a means of forming stable, long-term relationships (families) - a development which would benefit both gays and the remainder of society. Â Â "Hey it's the 20th century. Whatever it takes to have a good time let's get on with it, so long as it doesn't cause a murder." Â Zappa (from the tune Jazz Discharge Party Hat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 RuMR said: Fence_Sitter said: Off_White said: I'm a gang of one, caveman. Â you wish... you are as generic as all the countless other clowns on here that ont believe in anything, but bash anyone with any convictions... kitten was as non-confrontational as can be about it and still caught flack... you are no more unique than the kids shopping at abercrombie... your niche is just "fringe" and theirs is "mainstream" its all what group you belong too... i have yet to meet the individual that defies categorization... except cavie... whatever fence....yer right up there w/ falwell as far as categorization!!! why is that? because i question whether a child whill have derogatory consequences from having two gay parents? sorry brah... i haven't seen any of these dozens of studies that you speak of... everyone quotes studies to prove their point... but rarely are they ever cited... i am not denying them, just want joshk to show us the goods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 You can argue this shit till the cows come home, but married butt pirates or clam bumpers shouldn't be raising children. It's just not fucking right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 whatever trask...nice avatar pic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: RuMR said: Fence_Sitter said: Off_White said: I'm a gang of one, caveman.  you wish... you are as generic as all the countless other clowns on here that ont believe in anything, but bash anyone with any convictions... kitten was as non-confrontational as can be about it and still caught flack... you are no more unique than the kids shopping at abercrombie... your niche is just "fringe" and theirs is "mainstream" its all what group you belong too... i have yet to meet the individual that defies categorization... except cavie... whatever fence....yer right up there w/ falwell as far as categorization!!! why is that? because i question whether a child whill have derogatory consequences from having two gay parents? sorry brah... i haven't seen any of these dozens of studies that you speak of... everyone quotes studies to prove their point... but rarely are they ever cited... i am not denying them, just want joshk to show us the goods   So Fence, where are all of your studies that show its wrong and causes problems for the child??? You're all talk so far and its based on your feelings...Do you know any children being raised by gay parents?????  http://archive.aclu.org/issues/gay/parent.html  or  The American Academy of Pediatrics has come out in favor of gay adoption  Where's all your backup other than how you personally feel?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 *Â There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents. * Â Home environments with lesbian and gay parents are as likely to successfully support a child's development as those with heterosexual parents. * Â Good parenting is not influenced by sexual orientation. Rather, it is influenced most profoundly by a parent's ability to create a loving and nurturing home -- an ability that does not depend on whether a parent is gay or straight. * Â There is no evidence to suggest that the children of lesbian and gay parents are less intelligent, suffer from more problems, are less popular, or have lower self-esteem than children of heterosexual parents. * Â The children of lesbian and gay parents grow up as happy, healthy and well-adjusted as the children of heterosexual parents. Â these are not statistics... they are opinions... statistics have numbers in them... and i never stated i had studies on my side... you did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 again second article has no statistics in it... so... ah... i take it that you guy s done pulled a bush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents. Â lack of evidence is not proof of the contrary typical ACLU reasoning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 (edited) Nice SNIP fency...you left out the heading...it was Research Overview of Lesbian and Gay Parenting1 ...ie a summary of the findings...those are not opinions, they are the results of those particular studies that were referenced... Â Please note that i said "results" not fact. results are open to interpretation, but that's all you will get... Â I suggest you look at the referenced studies below your snip for the actual numbers. Many of those studies were preformed by acadamies and are published in leading journals that won't accept bs studies. There are numbers behind those statements... Edited July 31, 2003 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 and where's your counter evidence? Easy to pick something apart isn't it?? Â Why don't you find ONE article that isn't opinion and has studies to the contrary and post it? Â Bet you can't... Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 and another thing...i didn't say those articles had anything to do w/ statistics... Â My point in the second article was that American Acadamey of Pediatrics supports gay parenting as a viable family. But i suppose they are biased as well, huh? You probably know more about child rearing and well being than they do, don'tcha? Man, i'll need to call you for help w/ my kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 uhm dood... i asked for statistics and this is what you gave me... you asked for statistics in return... i dont know that i care that much to look... but perhaps... i just think There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents. is quite the telling quote... clearly demonstrates the logic used by these people to perpetuate their stances without really dealing with the issues... and yes i think the ACLU is biased... dont you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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