JGowans Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I was reading the TR on Hood from a guy that took the cat up. Some folks pissed on him a bit for not walking up from Timberline. This got me thinking though. I'm going to Elbrus in 2 weeks. There's a chair lift up to camp at 13K. Assuming I summit (18,500 ft) , would it be wrong of me to claim the summit if I take the lift up to 13,000? Time constraints would be the main reason for taking the lift. I want the summit, but I guess I also want the respect of my peers. What do you reckon? Where do you draw the line on lifts, cats, and other time-saving aids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I dunno...who don't you just take a snowmobile all the way up? It's all good right? As long as you're having fun...that's all that matters, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 (edited) Just messin' w/ ya...it seemed like a troll when you asked about taking a lift... If'n you were serious, my apologies... Oh...i only got a 480 on the sat verbal...musta misspelled my nomen... There...i went back and deleted my posts...feel better?? Edited July 21, 2003 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 Figger_Eight said: I dunno...who don't you just take a snowmobile all the way up? It's all good right? As long as you're having fun...that's all that matters, right? So, in your book, you gotta start from 0 no matter what? What about the plane, train, bike, or car that got you there or the paved roads that make these mountains accessible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jja Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 JG, I think it all depends on the ethics and style of the particular area and the climb in question. No one would say a summit of denali was illegit because a bush plane was used to get up on the glacier. So does denali bush plane = Elbrus chair lift? You'll have to answer that one for yourself. btw, ever been to chamonix? see all the telegraphiques that take climbers from the valley up to 10K? nobody ever bitches about those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 (edited) I want the summit, but I guess I also want the respect of my peers If you can't summit with out it, due to time or inabilites, is it better to summit with it, or fail without it? I wouldn't let your peers drive the answer to that question. Further, isn't it standard on Elbrus to take the chair-lift? If so, then you've made the standard grade, and others shouldn't criticize you unless they've done better. And even then, they shouldn't criticize you. Now, if time and abilities permit, and if the standard on the mountain was to NOT use the lift and you chose to anyway, then I might say something. Edited July 21, 2003 by Rodchester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 RuMR said:There...i went back and deleted my posts...feel better?? much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 No worries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 In any event, it would seem to me that taking the lift up the south side of hood, which is a whopping 11k foot peak , is different than taking a lift to 13k on an 18.5k foot mountain. My guess is unless you are aclimated, climbing for 13k to 18.5k is going to be a lot more difficult than climbing hood from timberline several times in a row. So, I doubt that answers your question, but that's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 It's interesting, this nicely mirrors the sport/trad debate, vis-a-vis the impact of conveniences such as bolts or pre-placed draws on the legitimacy of the ascent. As an avid sport climber, however, DFA recommends taking the chairlift and goin' with the local ethics, or whatever makes sense for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 jja said: JG, I think it all depends on the ethics and style of the particular area and the climb in question. No one would say a summit of denali was illegit because a bush plane was used to get up on the glacier. So does denali bush plane = Elbrus chair lift? You'll have to answer that one for yourself. btw, ever been to chamonix? see all the telegraphiques that take climbers from the valley up to 10K? nobody ever bitches about those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 (edited) JGowans - The only person's opinion that matters is your own. If to you taking the life is the best style for the climb then do that, as long as doing that won't mess up your ability to aclimate and not have issues on the climb due to poor acclimatization. I assume you're climbing the thing for yourself, not because you'll get bragging rights that might be tarnished if you took the lift. Have fun on the climb. p.s. a friend who skied it last year said that was the way to go. Makes the descent a lot easier. Edited July 21, 2003 by ehmmic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fejas Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Whats the standard for the mountain,anyone? 5,500 feet of elevation gain is still quite of an accomplishment, but the chair is aid. to use it cause you've already conquered the mountain, and you want to climb one of your favorite harder routes is just fine in my book. but to use aid like this just so you can scratch that mountain off your list is kinda weak if ya ask me. But I'm no hardcore or anything, I haven't climbed Elburs. And the denali bush plain does not = the chair lift, ya cant realy drive to the base of denali... Later just some gaper yapin about aid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Fejas said: the denali bush plain does not = the chair lift, ya cant realy drive to the base of denali... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmurray Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Further, isn't it standard on Elbrus to take the chair-lift? If so, then you've made the standard grade, and others shouldn't criticize you unless they've done better. And even then, they shouldn't criticize you. If you are going to criticize someone, you should first walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you are a mile away from them.......and you have their shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 take the lift it's totally euro. Not taking the lift is totally stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 take the lift. summit. i wouldn't call you a wuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aint_this_great Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Fejas said: And the denali bush plain does not = the chair lift, ya cant realy drive to the base of denali... ah, but as figger-eight could no doubt tell you, it is possible to get to the summit of denali without the aid of a bush plane. but I think in his heart, f8 wishes there was an escalator to the summit. and as for the whole sport vs. trad comparison, bolts may be aid, but nuts and cams affect the legitimacy of the ascent in the same way: you hope they remain permanent for the space of the climb, so you don't die, right? the question of whether you walk halfway or all the way up a mountain seems to be a little more relevant to the amount of chestbeating you're allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Take the lift. Save your joints. Save your energy. You don't always have to chestbeat. Taking the lift allows you to sit back and enjoy the view more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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