Where are the GREATS???

[Dru]

"Few people get famous for climbing in the Cascades (exceptions of course, but not too many recent R+I spreads on FA's and world class ascents in Washington). "

They save that stuff for Colorado, center of the Universe.

[Chongo]

Rodchester - see pt. 5 below.

[Rodchester]

I agree with jon.

That is exactly why I am trying to get us all to ask ourselves these questions.

Come on guys and gals, I love to joke and screw around almost as much as the best of you. But we need to give some room to others who might be new, others that might be very experienced but just can't stand the crap.

Sure sometimes a poster deserves it. But until they do we should be a little more respectful and open minded. Yes I have been an ass at times too, I admit it.

I really like this site but think that too often a few just bash others to the point of driving away many. (I seriously doubt they mean to do that, but too often they do).

[Peter_Puget]

Jon –

Your comments are well taken. I hope that the group learns to moderate itself.

W –

By Low-brow I didn’t mean a discussion of easy routes and such but threads about shitting and so for. As far as decrying something - I unabashedly decry threads like that. Do I decry threads like the one concerning North Face presenter? Yes. Many of the posts were terribly insulting and just plain nasty. To the extent we do not speak out against such behavior regardless of its impact on the site we are letting ourselves, and in my opinion, Jon down as well.

Many including yourself have concluded that this behavior drives away many. It matters not whether they are great or not. Their absence detracts from this site.

[W]

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter Puget:

Jon –

Your comments are well taken. I hope that the group learns to moderate itself.

W –

By Low-brow I didn’t mean a discussion of easy routes and such but threads about shitting and so for. As far as decrying something - I unabashedly decry threads like that. Do I decry threads like the one concerning North Face presenter? Yes. Many of the posts were terribly insulting and just plain nasty. To the extent we do not speak out against such behavior regardless of its impact on the site we are letting ourselves, and in my opinion, Jon down as well.

Many including yourself have concluded that this behavior drives away many. It matters not whether they are great or not. Their absence detracts from this site.

---

Word up, Peter P. Not sure I think that people, "great" or not, are to a man, or woman, driven away per se, so much as they either find the topics interesting or they don't. To go along with the poo-threads there are many articulate and intelligent threads in which to partake here. Surely people are not so closed-minded that the existence of threads about shitting your pants stories makes not contributing to something else that is intelligent unworthy. I think Forrest hit a good point which I touched on as well- that this is a generally localized site- the cascades- and maybe some climbers are interested in something more general, or wider based. People keep saying that so many people "don't post here". So what? Should it be a mandate to get everyone to come here? As I said, much of what gets discussed here is utter banality- but even I know how and when to have fun with it, if I choose to do so. Look at my two shit stories, which more than one person seems to have enjoyed. It's a slice of the real world- high end climbers surely are not immune to discussing their toilet habits- Twight makes a point to mention in his Bradley story how the ravens dug through their latrine bags while they were up climbing and then crapped all over their tents. And this made it into Climbing Magazine. So there's something for everyone here, if one is inclined to participate. If not, that's just their own choice and let's not assume in totality they think they are either "too cool" to participate, or "driven away" by the spray thugs.

[Heinouscling]

Twight also included in one of his "Kiss Or Kill" stories how he shat in his altitude suit, cut his undies out of it, shat again, attempted to clean up, shat again, and finally said "Fuck it".

I wish I could remember the story and author, but I distincly remember reading in Climbing, some years back, a story about two famous climbers climbing in the Himalayas. The author explained, in some detail, how the gal attempted to hang her ass out of the portaledge fly to let loose and didn't make it. Her asshole exploded in her suit and she and her partner had to deal with the smell for the rest of the climb.

My shit thread has received over 40 replies so evidently I'm not the only one who enjoys a good story. I've climbed with several partners and a good shit story always pops up. Hey, its reality man. Often, shitting and climbing do not mix and a good story results.

-Heinous

[Peter_Puget]

W –

Quote:” let's not assume in totality they think they are either "too cool" to participate, or "driven away" by the spray thugs”Well I agree with that and never suggested [insert edit:we should assume] it either.

A few stories regarding shit does not always equal bad. Pictures posted of shit next to toilets pretty much = bad. I never suggested that everyone should come here but given Jon’s experience, mine and others it is clear that many would like to participate and choose not to because of some of the drivel. Word up - whether it attracts or drives people away, it is just flat out inappropriate to slam people over real or imagined infidelities.

Saying people don’t post here because it is “their own choice” or are “just flat out aren't interested” is a meaningless tautology.

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

[Heinouscling]

My personal policy on spray is, I never get personal. If it is something that might be taken personal, than I always leave names out and give no info such that an actual person's identity can be deduced or assumed (I.E. my shit thread). As for infidelity (even jokingly), I won't even go near it.

As anonymous as some of you think you may be, your real identity will be discovered, especially if you hang with the climbing crowd in person (I.E. the ice fest coming up). I hate nasty surprises. Especially getting an ice pick in the forehead.

-Heinous

[Smoker]

Its been asked here already-What Does Great mean?

This site has transformed its self a few times already. It will continue to evolve. Our community of climbers is much tighter and closer than outward appearances.

The single constant when I bump into the rest of you out on the rock/ice is that we are all out to have fun.

This site can heat up, just like being on a crowded route. Tempers do flare.

At times the "contributions" found here are slanderous, lacking compassion or down right mean.

But there is always about an equal amount of thoughtful, respectful communication that takes place as well.

Some of us would wish for more of the former, some, more of the latter.

It is easy to face the screen and send off the first potty-mouthed response that comes to mind. Lots more difficult to do in person. Some of us have said things electronically that we would not be able to say in person.

I know a guy that is sponsored, published etc. He started getting all kinds of grief each time he posted (on a different site) by a single individual. Slander, filth and threats brought an end to his contributions.

The greatest climber I know is the one that’s tied in with my sorry ass.

Smoker

[allthumbs]

quote:

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Originally posted by Smoker:

The greatest climber I know is the one that’s tied in with my sorry ass. Smoker

---

Now you're talkin'!

[Retrosaurus]

I am embarassed about posting here and would be humiliated to be associated with the copious amount of drivel on this site. But I have no self-esteem so it doesn't bother me that much.

[erik]

how about this rod:

we are all self serving assholes with little ambition or drive to accomplish anything real or substational in the world...we are maggots and should be treated as such...we belittle other great people in hopes that we too can have some statisfaction of feeling superior to others around us.....

you know you sure do post here alot too???

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: erik ]

[W]

Can anyone picture this post coming from Steve House:

"hey guys! my name's Steve, and I live up in the Methow. I've been up at Washington Pass the past three weeks guiding backcountry skiing, and then I had to go briefly to guide a Robson winter ascent, then did a couple fifty mile ski traverses with my wife, but now I'm back home and I'm wondering if anyone's climbed Liberty Crack lately? Does anyone know how bad the snow is getting up to the base? Do you think I should bring crampons? How about the aid pitch? Does anyone know the status of the fixed gear? Will there be snow all over it? Do you think I should bring pitons? How much food should I bring? what kind of crampons do you prefer for approaches at washington pass? Please reply soon cause I'm leaving tomorrow and I'll have to make a lot of decisions about this. ps- what are your favorite 60 hour single push ascent routes?"

[panther]

W,

You rule.

P

[TimL]

W,

Very well said.

TimL

[Dru]

"If anybody is doing the Diamond on Bear Mountain, look out for the loose block on the 17th pitch".

See if Jon and Tim were doling out $$$$ like Quokka did maybe we could hire some LEGENDS to email us from a portaledge on Trango Tower and tell us who works in the 7-11s in Pakistan .

[max]

quote:

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Originally posted by Retrosaurus:

I am embarassed about posting here and would be humiliated to be associated with the copious amount of drivel on this site. But I have no self-esteem so it doesn't bother me that much.

---

I think behind the humor in mitches post lies the actaul issue at hand. I think Rod's idea of someone great is someone who doesn't have time/ambition/humility to go to this board. It's like if I was at a mini-golf course and my friend asks me "how come no good golfers show up here?" I point to Woody Woodstick and say "what about woody? He's awesome!" And my freind says "how good can he be? He comes here" So inherent in some people's definition of "great" is "does not post to cc.com" Maybe they just have a bad conscience or feel guilty for posting on cc.com. I know some pretty awesome climbers that post here. And from the way it sounds (maybe it's just spray), quite a few of the regular posters have climbed some pretty sick stuff!

[W]

TR by Steve:

"Hi everyone. I just climbed a new mixed route on Bungwater Mountain in the Pickets. It's that obvious 3800' high smear of coca-cola ice on the left side of the north face, that I'm sure everyone's been looking at for the last few years. The last five or six trips I've taken in there in the winter over the past two seasons, it's never been in! but finally it looked good. That three day approach was getting tiring. The line is awesome! It's no harder than WI7X or so, but if you can frig in a couple of stubbies on the crux pitch, you won't have to run it out more than about 80 feet or so. I was really pumped so I didn't bother with placing any protection after I dutifully protected my belay, but it's all there. Don't bother with bivi gear, it goes in about 41 hours. Bring one ice hook and about eight screws, maybe a handful of KBs and have the time of your life. Cheers, everyone, see you at Pub Club! My Pakistan trip got pushed back three days so I'll be able to make this time. -Steve"

[Peter_Puget]

W -

In some ways your post is well taken in some ways it shows a certain contempt for the site. A few years ago I was driving with someone mentioned in a recent thread as one of the "legends" and discussed equipment for of all places Patagonia. Someplace he has been several times. To my knowledge Wallstien does not know him personally I can easily imagine a web site where a person like Wallstien could post on here about his current trip and a "big name" might respond with a useful bit of info. About ten years ago I called up out of the blue a person well known for FAs in Zion. A week later I recieved a pile of topos in the mail. Would he participate in some imaginable website? I think so.

[Heinouscling]

"Greatness" is obviously a matter of perspective.

Many people consider people who have climbed Everest to be "great". Even though those people merely tagged behind the sherpas carrying their shit and then used the fixed lines and ladders put in place by, why who else?, the sherpas. Granted, climbing Everest, in this manner is a great athletic accomplishment, but I cannot agree that it is a great climbing accomplishment. These people, by their very nature, spout off about their greatness to the public. Many are millionaire socialites who require large doses of attention in order to keep their bloated egos from imploding.

This can be said of some of the "great" climbers, in regards to feeding their bloated egos. It is my belief that many great climbers are rather introverted and have no desire at all for any attention whatsoever. This personality trait, most likely, contributes much to their climbing greatness. It takes a special type of mentality to climb hard, nasty shit and to push the climbing envelope. Not unlike some of the other great, but introverted, minds that have become known.

-Heinous

[jblakley]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rodchester:

Will:

Judging by the amount of smearing I bet many wouldn't post here.

(Phatty - you are actually great in my book)

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Now are you suggesting that ALL legends are sensitive and can't take any shit flippin' and don't like off color humor? I doubt that's the case. That suggests that in order to become a legend one must be uptight and serious all the time.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I am great.. We all are great. Except Dan Larson he sux! Kiss it Trask

[W]

Point well taken, Peter. I'm not suggesting that famous climbers are all arrogant and "above" posting or providing info. I'm merely pointing out that most "famous" climbers, whether they want to admit it or not, are at least partially conscious of their celebrity status even if they have not pursued it directly, and would be shy about posting here not for fear of being sprayed but for not wanting to risk portraying a know it all or intrusive approach. The big name climbers often live in enclosed circles and stay there, for the energy level among that group attracts others of that level. Nothing I've posted implies anything about said individuals. I'm poking fun because it would be funny to imagine a famous, top end climber, partaking in a TYPICAL discussion that goes on here. That's all.

Most of these "greats" are great human beings when you meet them and you quickly find out they put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else- and will gratefully help you out with a question if you just ask. They also I would guess tend to appear insolent when approached by someone giving off to them a gaper vibe- which to me would signal that they don't want to be worshipped.

[panther]

Some of them have even be known to shirk leads, fall of easy pitches, and trip over their own feet. Many can't party for crap!

[Rodchester]

Jim:

I didn't say anything about off colored humor. So obviously I didn't say even imply that ALL Legends are sensitive. I didn't say any are.....smearing is different.

It is just interewsting to me that many climbers, and many "well known climbers", call the legends greats what ever, don't seem to post here. Even though I am sure that many do spend time at home and on the web.

And Phatty you are great....