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Rodchester

Where are the GREATS???

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Many of the great climbers live in the PNW and throw in the Montana-Wyoming area and we have an incredible amount of great climbers in a fairly small area.

This site has become well known by many climbers in the PNW. But for some reason the greats never seem to post on this site.

Does anyone know or wonder why no great climbers post on this page? confused.gif" border="0

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rod,

i post here and i am great! so what is your point?

greatness is relative, if people do not concern themselves of others of greatness, then who is great? who decides what and who is great.....i think a lot of the people i know are great people and a lot of them post here.............so the greats are all over the place....

i don't get it!? or you trying to knock on people??? cause you feel that your friend has been attacked???? stuff like that just perpetuates your complaint....

you lawyers?! sheesh!

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WTF are you talking about molester? What do you consider a "great"? I mean damn, Matt Anderson nearly onsighted the entire Rainbow Wall, that's pretty impressive. Wallstein could be one of the best young wall climbers in the PNW for all we know, he's definitely got plenty of experience and leads harder aid than I wanna think about. I don't know him, but it sound like Alpine K has done some crazy shit. I doubt Steve House has the time or really gives a shit what other people think, and most of the hard-asses are probably out there CLIMBING instead of wishing they were climbing. Just because you've never heard of them doesn't mean they're not pulling down, who had heard of Tait Reese before Steph dropped his name in a letter to Climbing and those Simon Carter photos showed up in R&I? Who outside Utah knew Jeff Pedersen from anything other than having FA credits all over the Utah sport-monkey guides before the R&I profile? Same deal with alot of people, I met two 50-something desert rats who were onsighting 5.12 trad routes and nobody's ever heard of them or ever will because unlike us (Me, you and everyone else here) they don't spray about it. Just think about this: Dean Potter was unknown to most of the climbing world as late as a few years ago.

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I saw Don Serl post here... Beckey doesnt post but he lurks... Kramar posts...whats your point again? I know Gordie Skoog used to and quit, so he has issues, so what?

Besides how do you know some of those legends dont use avatars like the rest of us? Who really knows who Two Banana is. He could be Carl Deidrich or whoever.

[sleep][sleep] Just cause somebody dissed your girlfriend. Get a grip harrychester.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Dru ]

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Alex Lowe is quoted as once saying "the greatest climber is the one having the most fun."

Fuck the numbers. I think its admirable that there are guys out there pushing their limits on sick shit. Getting out of bed damn near has me gripped some mornings. So what? Hero worship isn't what I'm hear for--its to compare penis size. As it stands I'm hung like a castrated ferret.

Whats an 'avatar' anyway?

Rob

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Will:

I know Matt Anderson and somehow I doubt he would consider himself one of the greats. Yes he kicks ass and climbs some tough ass shit. Yes he would smoke me. Others here would smoke me too.

"I doubt Steve House has the time or really gives a shit what other people think, and most of the hard-asses are probably out there CLIMBING instead of wishing they were climbing."

Now that hits the point. I guess it is because most of the posters, myself included, just aren't out there climbing...but we have time for posting.

The point is that none of the well known climbers post here even though they live in the PNW.

Judging by the amount of smearing I bet many wouldn't post here.

Just trying to get some opinions.....

(Phatty - you are actually great in my book)

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Hey Rodholder can you give us a list of who qualifies as GREAT then. Cause you obviously are the only one who understands your cult of celebrity or whatever.

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word, Dru.

From what I gather, Rod, your definition of GREAT seems to have been narrowed down to people who either CONSIDER themselves great, or are household names made so by their status as media whores- or both, because some qualify in both areas.

There's sort of this inferiority complex stink emanating here- like, "everyone here is so snotty it's no wonder famous climbers don't want to be associated with this site".

Besides the fact that personalities differ greatly, guys like House are out climbing and not sitting behind a computer terminal 40 hours a week and going on one or two big trips a year. The rest of us surf this site because we are bored at work!

What's the point of asking this question?

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I guess the context of the posting is lost on some of you. No problem. But for those of you who understand the context of this post feel free to respond.

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Rodrubber sez: I think a lot more climbers, GREAT and not so great would post here if there wasn't so much smearing going on...not the off colored humor...that is fine.

Yeah everybody knows GREAT climbers hate slabs...so everybody, edge dont smear. rolleyes.gif" border="0

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Can't disagree Rod- for the most part that's probably all true.

I again would suggest that for many of these climbers, it's not that they are "above" talking about mellow climbs or whatever, it's that 1) they are mostly out climbing and not on the computer, and 2) the typical discussion here is truthfully an ongoing babble of highly unsubstantial, insignificant banter, whether it is smearing or not smearing. Few of what gets posted here is about direct information exchange, most of it is conversation. Busy climbers who climb year round have better things to do, and better resources to get their information from. If they meet you in person and you ask them a question- sure they'll help you. They just don't lurk the boards dying to jump at the chance to answer someone's question about conditions on the Tooth.

High-end climbers got that way by a high energy level and gravitating towards others with similar levels. Contributing posts to topics about diarrhea, clothing manufacturer ethics, furor over smoking in the Muir hut, on and on...and with a group of people few of which they actually know- I think most people just flat out aren't interested in joining this board.

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W - not to mention threads titled: "(insert potential sponsor) sucks!"

actually, i'm not sure your argument about famous climbers not being online holds water, because rec.climbing has a number of very well known participants, but maybe the key is that it is a national (international) forum, while CC is, by definition, a local forum

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pretty soon Ray will have made more posts than Beckey has climbed peaks! cool.gif" border="0

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quote:

Originally posted by Dru:
pretty soon Ray will have made more posts than Beckey has climbed peaks!
cool.gif" border="0

No way man. Energizer Bunny has got me beat wink.gif" border="0

By the way even Beckey sez Dru is the beta master wink.gif" border="0

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

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<lunchbreak>

I think it is hard for anyone to know who posts on this site, if you don’t want people to know who you are you quite capable of doing it. Maybe Christine Boskoff does (or did!? lol). Fact is there lots of talented people who post and most likely there is a lot of talented people who don’t. Whether they are a “greats” or not there are people who don’t post here regardless of their experience level for varying reasons. Is it because they don’t have a thick enough skin and are afraid of getting mobbed on? Maybe they just don’t believe in disseminating climbing info on the net. I don’t really know the answer.

I’ve met a lot of really cool people because of this site. I’ve also met a bunch of people who are aware of the site but don’t post here and they let me know why they don’t. I’m hesitant to let people know who I am partly because more than often people have a hard time distinguishing the difference from the person who runs the website versus the content that people post on it. People have been pretty rude to me about this whole deal, and while I’m pretty open to criticism and don’t take it personally, you can’t help but wonder how is what’s said here any worse than how they just treated me.

It would be nice to see more people post here though regardless of whether they are a newbie or a “legend”. The more people who contribute the more likely you are to get the beta on the climb you just itching to do, or someone to buy that tent you just dying to get rid of, or the partner you need because your new to the area. I can’t think of one negative thing that would come from more people posting here, legends or not. But to be honest I don’t think that will happen unless people start treating each other with a little more respect and stop posting really senseless shit. And this isn’t something will come from policing the site, it’s going to have to come from the group policing itself. People accuse me of being some cyber cop or garbage like that but to be honest I don’t read about a tenth of what is posted here because I’m to busy at work and just don’t have the time or just don’t care. You can argue day in and day out about the merits or evil of spray, but it’s not the spray that detracts the outsiders, it’s some of your attitudes. I’m going to leave it up to the group what direction this message board goes.

</lunchbreak>

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I don't know for sure, Peter, what do you think it is?

It could be a different reason for each individual. But i think we've established that more than one well-known climber, and more than just a few accomplished climbers post here. What seems to be at issue is why the really really famous ones don't post here.

you and I don't know what it is like to be a celebrity, so how can we speak for all of them? However, I would venture to guess that someone who is so accomplished as to have become well known, sponsored, what have you- has such a wide circle of friends, contacts, information sources, and social schedule, not to mention going climbing constantly, that they have no time, need or reason to post here.

As for your precise question about the low brow: well, how many average alpinists would go sit in on a member discussion at the mountaineer's clubhouse to get some information on climbs and conditions? This isn't meant to bash the mountaineers (there's already a thread for that as we all know), but even if one doesn't consider oneself ethically or morally superior or superior for climbing harder than them, few would want to consult the mountaineers if one isn't a member. The energy levels are just different and the mountaineers attract a certain kind of person, while repelling others.

The other thing is- as far as a beta-gathering standpoint is concerned- the great climbers likely do 100 percent of their own analysis and ask their inner circle of friends if they have questions. Often, and most importantly- they don't need to ask anyone. They just know how to figure it out.

As far as social discussions- yes, I will assert that a high end climber,while not necessarily snubbing "average" or weekend climbers- will tend to gravitate towards those with similar energy levels. Does this mean this is a low-energy site with low-energy people? Not at all. There are some people here who do some epic, high energy stuff. But I would guess that- and this is not a denigrating statement by any means- that the bulk of the posters here tend to be weekend climbers; the more serious climbers, even many of the unknown hardmen and women here- and there are quite a few- are often reticent about their accomplishments and not outspoken. The famous climbers, while not necessarily arrogant or insolant, are rarely reticent or exceedingly private- they got famous by speaking and advertising their accomplishments whether through photography, writing, spray, seeking of sponsorship, or just doing such groundbreaking and bold stuff that the world noticed without them hardly trying (House, Stump, Porter as examples). That in itself is a different level of energy. So in one sense I might be suggesting that Cascadeclimbers is a website composed of a cross section of the entire climbing culture, and these guys in some cases are just way out on the fringe in their relationships to the climbing community, or moreover, don't see any significance in it as community. Who knows?

Moreover, maybe some of these guys don't care about climbing in the Cascades. The site is called Cascadeclimbers.com. Few people get famous for climbing in the Cascades (exceptions of course, but not too many recent R+I spreads on FA's and world class ascents in Washington). They get famous by going elsewhere. And while there's lots of hard routes and good training here, it is still only a warm up for other places like the Rockies and Alaska and the Himalaya.

We could analyze this to death, but I don't think this is an issue worth decrying over as if something is so wrong.

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