Mountain Tools & Customer Service

[Formaldehead]

Here's the result of my dealing with Mountain Tools, they ignored my last email, so I'm sharing my experience with the rest of the climbing community in the hopes of preventing any of you from making the same mistake I did, which was to deal with their company in the first place.

 

Larry,

 

First, I did not request that you send me a partial set of cams. I ordered a complete set of cams. I expected to receive a complete set of cams. I did not. You informed me that "a couple of the cams are back ordered and will ship in 10-14 days" (see below). It was your company that then took the initiative to send me, and bill me for, a partial order. Your company at no time sought to discover from me if I would be willing to accept a partial order. By sending me a partial order without my consent, your compamny engaged itself in a bussiness contract that it was unable to fulfill. Had I known that I would not have received all of the cams that I ordered in a timely fashion, I never would have placed my order with your company.

 

I had the good graces to first allow your company to attempt to fill my order within the "10-14" day window that you told me would be required to complete my order. This did not happen. After another two weeks, you were still unable to fill my order. When I canceled the rest of my order, I was billed for $10.80. This is bullshit.

 

In these days of computerized ordering and inventorying, your excuse that "all merchandise is subject to availability, prior sale and manufacturer supply - which is beyond our control" is pitiful. When I placed an order with your company over your website, it should have been made known to me immediately that you would not be able to fill it.

 

Your company owes me a refund on the $10.80 that I was charged. Your company owes me this refund because you failed to fulfill your end of a bussiness contract, and for wasting my time over this issue. Please credit my account accordingly.

 

Finally, the main tenet of good bussiness practice is to "never make an unhappy customer". Rest assured that I am very unhappy.

 

J

 

 

 

 

Mountain Tools <climb@mtntools.com> wrote:

Hey J,

Your math is correct... the discount is for ordering and paying for a set (or 5 cams) - as advertised. As a courtesy and at your request we sent a partial set after advising you of the backordered sizes. We are sorry not all sizes were available at the time of your order.

Unforetunately, there is no discount for two cams or less than 5 cams or a "set" and all merchandise is subject to availability, prior sale and manufacturer supply - which is beyond our control.

Thanks for your understanding.

Best Climbing,

Larry Arthur

----- Original Message -----

From:

To: Mountain Tools

Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 11:18 AM

Subject: Re: Mtn Tools Online Order Form

 

 

Let me get this straight. You offer a discount price on a package deal on product that you do not even have in stock. You ship 2/5 of the order, and tell me that I can expect a 10-14 day wait on the rest. I wait one month, and you still cannot fill my order. When I cancel the remainder of my order, you bill me $10.80, the discount you gave me on the two cams you did send. Is this correct?

 

Mountain Tools <climb@mtntools.com> wrote:

J,

I have adjusted your order as requested. If you choose to reorder we will reinstate your set discount and give you priority as of your new order date. As a courtesy, if you wish to order one of our Jet Packs - I'd be happy to give you a 10% discount.

Best Climbing,

Larry

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From:

To: Mountain Tools

Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: Mtn Tools Online Order Form

 

 

Larry,

Unless you can ship the rest of my order to me by the end of next week, I'd like you to cancel the order.

Thanks,

-J

 

Mountain Tools <climb@mtntools.com> wrote:

Justin,

Thanks for your mail... check back towards the end of next week... we may have some on the way.

Best Climbing,

Larry

 

----- Original Message -----

From:

To: Mountain Tools

Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 7:22 AM

Subject: Re: Mtn Tools Online Order Form

 

 

Larry,

What's the word on the Aliens? My summer is about to start and I need to be well-armed for my climbing exploits.

Cheers,

-J

 

Mountain Tools <climb@mtntools.com> wrote:

J,

I'll check on the aliens after the holiday....

If you wish -mail back the carabiner and I will credit you the sale price of $5.50 (they are $8.50 ea or $8.00 - six or more). I thought this would be in your best interest (saving $3 on the 6th biner). My apologies.

Best Climbing,

LArry

----- Original Message -----

From:

To: Mountain Tools

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 7:14 AM

Subject: Re: Mtn Tools Online Order Form

 

 

Larry,

Good morning! How goes it with the Aliens I ordered? I'm still waiting on three...ETA, or are they still in progress? Also, I ordered 5 biners, but you sent and billed me for 6. Is that standard business practice?

Thanks a bunch,

-J

 

Mountain Tools <climb@mtntools.com> wrote:

Hi J,

Thanks for your order # 214166 which will be processed on Monday. A couple

of the cams are backordered and will ship in about 10-14 days.

Check our web page next week for news, tech tips and an interesting article

about Stephan's Nuts and Cams Museum!

Best Climbing,

Larry

 

PS: Check out our 2003 line up of *NEW* Rock Shoes including Five Ten T

Rocks, Huecos and La Sportiva Testarossa's plus

the new La Sportiva BOULDER SFC and Five Ten MOUNTAIN MASTER 2003 approach

shoes - in stock for ASAP delivery!

 

Ten Reasons to buy your shoes and mountain boots from mtntools:

1. GUARANTEED Fit

2. In Stock = Fast Delivery

3. FREE Fed Ex Upgrade

4. We CLIMB our Line

5. Performance Upgrade ADVICE

6. LATEST Models

7. Best SELECTION

8. 800 5.10 -2- 5.14

9. Rock + Approach Shoe COMBO = 10% DISCOUNT

10. FREE T-Shirt with every shoe order>

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From:

To:

Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 11:05 AM

Subject: Mtn Tools Online Order Form

 

 

> Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by

> on Saturday, May 10, 2003 at 11:05:34

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

>

>

> FirstName:

>

> LastName:

>

> Street1:

>

> City:

>

> State: WA

>

> Country: USA

>

> Zip: 98225

>

> PhoneDay:

>

> PhoneEve:

>

> Marketing: mfg

>

> qty1: 1

>

> descript1: 3/8 - 1.5 Aliens (blu-orng) PKG DEAL

>

> price1: 245.00

>

> qty2: 5

>

> descript2: DMM Prowire Wiregate Carabiners

>

> price2: 40.00

>

> UPS2: 7.00

 

[erik]

IF THE SPOKE SPANISH I COULD SEE WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS ALL ABOUT!

 

[Dru]

Larry the MountainTool

[klenke]

Dru said:

Larry the MountainTool

Yeah, I kind of found that ironic too.

[cj001f]

What's with the taking of private squabbles public as a means of sales dispute resolution nowadays? Here, ttips - it's lame. Pain in the ass disputes are a part of mail order - and is why having real climbing stores, with real inventory, around, rocks. Keep your dirty laundry private.

[chucK]

Yeah, the hidden cost of doing mail order.

 

I ordered a TCU from Backcountry Gear (from the advert on this website). They sent me a metolius "power cam" instead of a TCU.

 

Not a big difference and I just shrugged it off, but it is sort of annoying when they send you something different than what you ordered.

 

[cman]

thanks for letting us know that mountian tools is lame but i have to second what cj said. i have ordered mail order/internet stuff and you can pretty much count on the fact that the cheaper it is the more you are going to get jerker around. you get what you pay for. pay retail and get real service.

 

the exception i have found is the euro sites, fast and cheap.

[Peter_Puget]

Private? I have made several posts regarding the fine service I received at Shoreline. Were they all inappropriate sharing of a private matter? Years ago I ordered from Mtn tools and always had fine service. Several months ago when someone was complaining about not being able to return merch to Feathered Friends I wrote to several online companies asking the following question as a test: If I purchased a helmet and it was thew wrong size could I return it? Most responded directly. Mtn Tools did not. Their response was let us help you decide and you won’t have the problem to begin with. I took that to be a sideways manner of saying no I couldn’t return the helmet. I decided not to make my purchase with Mtn Tools

 

PP

 

[chelle]

For the future, I've had really great experiences working with Pagan Mountaineering in Utah. Both via their site and phone.

 

Happy shopping.

[Stefan]

cj001f said:

What's with the taking of private squabbles public as a means of sales dispute resolution nowadays? Here, ttips - it's lame. Pain in the ass disputes are a part of mail order - and is why having real climbing stores, with real inventory, around, rocks. Keep your dirty laundry private.

 

I don't agree cjf001f. Most discussions on this board are in the "SPRAY" area. Posting this informs others, just like a bad movie, or a good movie. We have people posting positive information on this site about good customer service at worthy locations. Recent example: Cascade Crags in the Shops forum.

 

In addition, if a customer service rep catches this thread, maybe they will bend over backwards to correct the issue; and thereby getting back a future customer.

[Rodchester]

I think he did a good job of outlining his trouble with Mtn Tools and am glad he shared it so that i won't use them.

 

I also say that I have had nothing but good experiences with Mountain Gear, or mgear.com. They fix the problem, if there is one.

[chucK]

Here's sort of a related one. Amazon.com. Ordered some stuff for Chistmas a couple of years back. I paid extra for the get-it-there-by-Christmas "guarantee". Well, it didn't get there by Christmas, and you know what the compensation was? ... they refunded the extra money I paid for the get-it-there-by-christmas and offered me 10% off my next order! .

 

I emailed and told them what I thought about a measly 10% off of stuff from a company I never wanted to do business with again, and after a couple of emails, they refunded my shipping costs too.

 

Words of wisdom, when something is "guaranteed" find out ahead of time what exactly it means.

[Dru]

.....and if a lifetime guarantee, means lifetime of the user, or lifetime of the product, which could be secretly defined " until the second before you wreck it"

 

"But I just bought it yesterday and it exploded the first time I tried to use it"

 

"well, we define this product as having a 4 hour lifespan, so be glad you got a whole day out of it"

 

[allthumbs]

I'd be VERY skeptical of any guarantees or warranties on any climbing gear. I know for a fact that you cannot return technical gear after the fact.

 

Also, not that anyone gives a shit, but I never order anything online. I want to touch it and feel it before I pay for it.

[cj001f]

Stefan said:

I don't agree cjf001f. Most discussions on this board are in the "SPRAY" area. Posting this informs others, just like a bad movie, or a good movie. We have people posting positive information on this site about good customer service at worthy locations. Recent example: Cascade Crags in the Shops forum.

 

I just lump this conversation into the spray. It's just an endless repitition of the same story - and not really climbing related. If you order from any mail order company enough times you're going to have problems. Particularly with lower volume items like Aliens, or in my experience, a Whippet - which I ordered from Mountain Gear (the one everyone's raving over). Except they never told me the Whipper was being drop shipped directly from Black Diamond, so there'd be multiple days for Mountain Gear to process the order before it shipped - it arrived 2 weeks later, the day before I left. And then there's the debacle I had wiht Altrec where they wouldn't honor my coupon. Or the debacle with Rei.com. Or the debacle with.....

[Braumeister]

I'm experiencing a similar CF w/ my local bike shop (so far, I've been waiting 6 weeks for a new chain ring & three weeks for a rear cassette).

 

"Call back next week, it should be here."

 

"It didn't come in, but UPS hasn't been here yet today. Call back next week, it should be here."

 

"I don't know WTF is going on with that damn distributor; UPS hasn't been here yet today, but call back next week, it should be here."

 

I've since learned that my bike shop is not paying their bills, so I'm sure their suppliers aren't interested in extending them credit.

 

This, after I tried to do the honorable thing by buying my bike locally and offering them the additional service & parts I would need post-sale. Jag-offs...

[Dru]

trask said:

Also, not that anyone gives a shit, but I never order anything online. I want to touch it and feel it before I pay for it.

 

So did you go to Russia for touchy-feely before you chose the mail order bride then?

[Dave_Schuldt]

Try emailing the link to this thread and see what happens.

[David_Parker]

I have ordered things from the internet mostly with great success and minimal problems. Here's a tip, only use internet companies that publish a customer service number and call it before you order to verify that you get a real person. If so, you will increase the liklihood of NOT having problems if they screw up your order. Another tip is don't believe the published prices. When I bought my digital camera, I needed a bunch of accessories. I asked "is that your best price" and they almost instantly gave me a much lower one. Maybe it was because I bought the camera and was adding on right then and they won't negotiate if you order just that accessory, but don't forget to ask!