BG TRAIL USERS BEWARE!!!!!!

[Kiwi]

Indeed, it is a vicious cycle...

[allthumbs]

I've read that most cyclists are gay.

[Thinker]

Norm said:

The signs read: “delay of more than 5 vehicles illegal slow vehicles must use pullouts”. If it’s a 2 lane road with no shoulder I’m taking the lane until a shoulder appears. Too many SUVs seem to think they take up the same space as a Civic, and it’s too dangerous to pop off the black top at 20 MPH.

 

Re Passing: It really steams me when I courteously pass a bike, only to have it pass me again on the right when I'm stopped at a light or stopsign. (assuming no bike lanes on the road here.) Invevitably I have to pass the little f**ker again in a few minutes, maybe not so courteously, and maybe not in so safe a spot.

 

Why don't bikers just tuck in behind traffic like the big rigs they aspire to be and wait their turn at the intersection? Seems to me it would be safer and much more considerate than the alternative I've described....and legal, too.

[allthumbs]

To answer your question Thinker, it's because biker's tend to think that the rules of the road don't apply to them. I've always preferred to spit on them and throw beers at them.

 

[gregm]

 

 

[Norm]

If the bikes are constantly catching you at intersections do you really need to get around them?

 

The first time I go a day without seeing a driver speed, blow a 4 way stop, turn without signaling, pass a cyclist leaving only inches, cut off a pedestrian in a cross walk, chuck a beer out a car window (though I havn't seen that redbird stunt since I moved out of the South), etc. I'll buy this nonsense that cyclists are the only ones who think the rules of the road don’t apply to them.

 

 

For the record I've always felt that courtesy is contagious and if traffic is light and I'm taking the lane then I cue up at lights. If I'm moving faster than the snarled traffic, as is frequently the case downtown, I'll not hesitate to move up on the right.

 

(edited to correct bad grammar)

Edited June 19, 2003 by Norm

[Attitude]

trask said:

To answer your question Thinker, it's because biker's tend to think that the rules of the road don't apply to them. I've always preferred to spit on them and throw beers at them.

Hey, you're drunk. It's not your fault.

 

[Alpine_Tom]

 

Wrong morally? Wrong legally? Whatever dude. I pay taxes too, we share the road.

 

Right.

One of the most pervasive myths in the bicycle-vs-car dispute is that "bikes don't pay taxes." In fact, gas taxes pay for roads that, almost exclusively, bicycles aren't allowed on: freeways, highways, onramps, etc. The city streets and county roads are funded by local taxes that cyclists (even cyclists that don't own cars!) pay.

 

[Thinker]

Norm, I think it's a circular argument. The leap-frogging will continue until one breaks the cycle....no pun intended.

 

So...How are motorists educated about the rights and responsibilites of sharing the road with bikes? When I moved to Seattle after 30 some years of living in BFE, I was suddenly confronted with the masses of fast moving and aggressive bikers enjoying their urban commutes and training rides. I'll have to admit, it had (and still has) me scratching my head over the dilema. Why did that bike cop who jetted off the sidewalk and into the crosswalk at 30mph flip me off when I almost hit him making my right turn? How can that biker I just passed on the street get away with hopping onto the sidewalk and pedaling across the crosswalk in front of me at the next stopsign?....shouldn't he consistently act like either a car or a pedestrian so I know what to expect from him? As I asked before, what's really supposed to happen at those ambiguous zones in an intersection where the white line marking the bike lane just disappears? (discussed extensively above) Why aren't bikers required to have insurance and licenses based on a test of skill and knowledge like any other vehicle on the road? And most importantly, will a big guy like Norm beat the crap out of me or my car if I make a mistake and really piss off the gentle giant?

 

To bring it full circle, are there any educational outreach programs to educate bikers and automobile drivers about how to safely and courteously share the road? If I recall right, there's little or no info about such things in the WA State drivers license test review book. Do schools or the YMCA teach these skills? Other sources?

[Attitude]

Thinker said:

Why aren't bikers required to have insurance and licenses based on a test of skill and knowledge like any other vehicle on the road?

Insurance for cyclists?

 

What about pedestrian insurance?

[AlpineK]

I get annoyed at bikers when I see them riding on a narrow arterial when they could be riding on sidestreets 1 block away.

 

However in general Thinker has a seriously crappy attitude about bikers.

[Thinker]

AlpineK said:

However in general Thinker has a seriously crappy attitude about bikers.

 

Oh contraire, mon frère! Please don't take my cheeky presentation of the things I wonder aloud as a bad attitude. By pointing out my perception that there's a lack of educational outreach, I'm actually proposing a solution or at least asking where the info I seek is available. No doubt there are others who ponder similar things, and having a healthy open discussion about them is a GOOD thing. At least IMHO.

[Attitude]

AlpineK said:

I get annoyed at bikers when I see them riding on a narrow arterial when they could be riding on sidestreets 1 block away.

Why?

 

I commute on arterials because it is the most direct and fastest way to get to work and back home.

[AlpineK]

I'll give you this example. N 40th heading up the hill to Wallingford Ave. N. This is a narrow arterial. A number of times I've been driving the chip truck up the street with oncoming traffic and a biker going up the hill.

 

The biker could have easily gone one block north or south and had the a street to themselves, and not lost any time commuting or whatever.

 

I've also seen bikers riding up N 65th to Phinney, which is quite narrow. Riding a few blocks north would give the biker a much less burly hill and virtually no car traffic.

[Fence_Sitter]

it is also the most direct and 'fastest' way to the ER!

[allthumbs]

AlpineK said:

I'll give you this example. N 40th heading up the hill to Wallingford Ave. N. This is a narrow arterial. A number of times I've been driving the chip truck up the street with oncoming traffic and a biker going up the hill.

 

The biker could have easily gone one block north or south and had the a street to themselves, and not lost any time commuting or whatever.

 

I've also seen bikers riding up N 65th to Phinney, which is quite narrow. Riding a few blocks north would give the biker a much less burly hill and virtually no car traffic.

Kurt, I think bikers have "the attitude". They're most likely liberal tree huggers that think they have something to prove. Their attitude is, "Here my liberal ass comes, get the hell outta the way." Give me a sixer of beer, I need to practice my throws.

[AlpineK]

Tree huggers piss me off

[allthumbs]

yah, nothing like some spikes to dull that new chain

[chirp]

Common courtesy should be the norm. I, as a cyclist, fully respect others and do my best to minimize my disruption of others daily flow.

 

Thank me for also not using gasoline and leaving it for you to blow on your jetskis and three wheelers.

 

Ok, I gotta go, so many trees to hug, so little time!

 

[allthumbs]

no probs. w/ doods like U

[Norm]

Thinker said:

 

To bring it full circle, are there any educational outreach programs to educate bikers and automobile drivers about how to safely and courteously share the road? If I recall right, there's little or no info about such things in the WA State drivers license test review book. Do schools or the YMCA teach these skills? Other sources?

 

Try the Cascade Bicycle Club http://www.cascade.org/home/index.cfm

 

AlpineK said:

I get annoyed at bikers when I see them riding on a narrow arterial when they could be riding on sidestreets 1 block away.

 

Narrow arterials are just that. Don’t expect to go as fast on 40th as you can on 50th. Do the Metro busses stopping at every other block piss you off as much as the cyclists? Also the side streets frequently don’t go the whole way through. This is the case around 40th

 

trask said:

Kurt, I think bikers have "the attitude". They're most likely liberal tree huggers that think they have something to prove. Their attitude is, "Here my liberal ass comes, get the hell outta the way." Give me a sixer of beer, I need to practice my throws.

 

and this is so les defensible than the “The road was made for cars, your health and well-being are worth infinitely less than my time” attitude of some drivers.

 

BTW - I know plenty of right wing cyclists back in NC

 

[chucK]

All this gripeing that bicyclists must consistently act like either pedestrians or vehicles is horseshit. It's guise is "I know what to expect from them". The reality is that people who say this crap are the same traffic nazis that get pissed off at you when you're breaking some rule (written or unwritten) even though you are not being dangerous and are not inconveniencing anybody in the slightest. Traffic nazism mentality spooned in with a bit of jealousy.

 

Bicyclists using the best of both worlds are not hurting anyone. There may be specific things some bikers do that inconvenience or hurt people (like screaming down a sidewalk endangering pedestrians, or blocking traffic when they could easily be riding elsewhere), but just because they switch modes does not cause the problem.

 

When I'm biking, I switch from ded to vehicle and back mainly to stay out of everybody's way as much as possible. I do it for safety reasons (myself and others). I'm doing it to stay out of your way, because I can't predict what you are going to do.

 

People who would deny me the right to ride on a vacant sidewalk instead of a busy street, or get bent out of shape if I hop off the sidewalk when there are pedestrians around basically have a stick up there.

[gapertimmy]

jerseys are aid

[Attitude]

Norm said:

BTW - I know plenty of right wing cyclists back in NC

Compared to Seattle, everybody in NC is right wing.

[Jim]

AlpineK said:

I'll give you this example. N 40th heading up the hill to Wallingford Ave. N. This is a narrow arterial. A number of times I've been driving the chip truck up the street with oncoming traffic and a biker going up the hill.

 

The biker could have easily gone one block north or south and had the a street to themselves, and not lost any time commuting or whatever.

 

I've also seen bikers riding up N 65th to Phinney, which is quite narrow. Riding a few blocks north would give the biker a much less burly hill and virtually no car traffic.

 

I'd have to agree that these are stupid choices for a bike rider - there are options to stay out of trouble.

 

On the other hand there's the BMW encounter I had this morning. Turning left onto 3rd Ave from Stewart I stay close to the centerline to let the two lanes of traffic pass me, then immediately get to the right to let any cars following me pass. And I signal. This chick in the BMW decides to zoom around me while turning left with me, then she starts leaning back into the left of the two lanes and squeezing me. I jam on the brakes (if I didn't she would have bumped me), go down and get a good road rash on the elbow. She carries on.

 

I think I was being extremely aware of not blocking traffic and courteous. She was not. I caught up three lights later and asked what exactly was she doing. She was dumbstruck and I thought she was going to start to cry. I left it.