Uncle_Tricky Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Burdo's North Cascades/Mazama "Select" guide is fairly annoying. He puts routes he apparently hasn't climbed on the "unrecommended" list. ("From what I've hear, this was a bad route.") Hell, if you're gonna go out of your way to specifically dis a route, you should at least have climbed the damn thing. And a lot of the guide is all "me, me, me, I, I, I." He offers detailed monologues about what he was thinking while on routes that he soloed--including what what he had for breakfast and the composition of his stool that day--but fails to include actual helpful information with comments like "Pro?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I like Mcklanes Alpine Select. Beckey. Frasier River to Rainy Pass. And the thick Squamish book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Watts/Smith Yoder/FC (though I hate the place) love the locater photos McLain's (?) Skaha Guide (s) Beckey Guides Red Rocks Guide hated it so much I left it in the airport in Vegass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Uncle_Tricky said:And a lot of the guide is all "me, me, me, I, I, I." He offers detailed monologues about what he was thinking while on routes that he soloed--including what what he had for breakfast and the composition of his stool that day--but fails to include actual helpful information with comments like "Pro?" For me, me, me guidebooks the Old Climber's Guide to the High Sierra (Voge/Smatko) takes the cake . Smatko went and included numerous first ascents of unnamed, insignifigant peaks - most of which were, surprise, surprise, first climbed by him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I always liked the formatt of the Smith Rock Guide. The older blue Wasatch Rock guide was physically a piece of shit. It broke into pieces immediately. The Ice Climbing guide to the Canadian Rockies by Jo-Jo is tops. An unbelievable amount of info in a well designed formatt and sturdy, correctly sized book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Beckey Guides - No other comprehensive mountain range book even compares. There's bound to be errors about obvious descent gullies McClane Books - All the Elaho books are awesome. The design is great. I'm waiting for the Selkirks North. Worst Books- Smoot books. He rips off info from people and then degrades them in his own sly way. Has he ever climbed a volcanoe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 the new waddington guide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalius Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Uncle_Tricky said: Burdo's North Cascades/Mazama "Select" guide is fairly annoying. He puts routes he apparently hasn't climbed on the "unrecommended" list... I had a chance to peruse this book recently and noticed that since he does not like aid climbing, he lists anything that involves more than A1 as "unrecommended". He states that Liberty Crack is unrecommended because of the scary old bashies and 1/4" rusties on the route. Sounds like he'd prefer a 3/8" bolt ladder. He should just admit that he hates aid climbing, but shouldn't diss the route for others that like it. What a wanker. ....... Content aside, I have to say that the worst binding job I've ever seen on any books, is the one on the old Leavenworth guidebook (it seems that the new one may be bound this way as well). The damn thing falls apart after little use! I found the best way to keep mine together was to drill three holes and put those hinged rings in them. That way you can even clip it to yer pack! Here's another vote for the Squamish Guidebook! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 The washington Rock guide by Jeff Smoot sucks ass! Just ask those who have tried to find static point with it. They were lost in the wood for hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I liked the way Clint Cummins produced his Index guide. I found the topo drawings sufficient to find any climb I ever looked for (though I once had trouble finding the rock called "the lip") and it was in my view surprsingly accurate for how much new material it covered. I liked the simple presentation and his statement that anybody who wanted to do so was free to copy it and share it with their friends. There were no glossy photos, and little history, but the guide did the job for me. Aren't Falcon guides, as a rule, generally poorly done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 mattp said: Aren't Falcon guides, as a rule, generally poorly done? Lake Tahoe Rock aint too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 mattp said:Aren't Falcon guides, as a rule, generally poorly done? the new JTREE guide is Falcon but basically just the old one with new coverphoto...and it is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 mattp said:Aren't Falcon guides, as a rule, generally poorly done? Depends if they're Falcon produced, or a guide that was rebadged as a Falcon (like the How to Rock Climb, Climbing Anchors, more Climbing Anchors, etc series - which were Chockstone, until they were acquired). Colorado Ice Climber's Guide is a well produced Falcon Guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 (edited) chirp said: Actually, having just moved from Red Rocks I must say the Red Rocks guide dosent suck ( as a local I found that many visiting climbers tended to whine alot about being lost or the inconveinience of having to actually use their heads to find a crag ), cest la vie. I must say tho that these were generally the sport climbing crowd. The long routes in the canyons got a much hipper crowd. The best guidebooks, have the least amount of "mommas boy" data ie; Detailed topos, locator pics, GPS waypoints, the word dude, and etc. As far as I am concerned, basic route info, general directions, light beta and a HEFTY dose of history would be sufficient. Too many people consider/expect "The Guidebook" to be the ultimate reference, to hold their hands as they walk from route to route. Dont get me wrong, I have a huge collection of guidebooks in my library but the excitement of adventure and discovery should still be a BIG part of outing. I dont need a running beta to have fun. Best guide book IMHO: Paul Pianas, Black Hills Needles guide ( it has good info and a buttload of history and cool pics) Worst guidebook: Any sport climbing guide. ( although I must admit the generic quality tends to require more delineation ) Anyhow, the ultimate goal is fun and each of us perceives and achieves that in their own way. First of all your an arrogant idiot. It's not like we're doing 1st ascents on these routes! The more info the better chance of success. Fuck all that adventure bullshit for the approach. What you need for a successful climb are good directions to the climb, a good description of what the climb looks like and what features it follows, and a friggin' photo of the climb with a line drawn over it. No one ever said they needed a move by move description, but if you can't find the goddamn climb cuz the author has his head shoved up his ass, then that's not an adventure, that's bullshit. A lot of the complaints aren't b/c the climbers aren't using their heads, there's just nothing to go on. You need ESP to figure out where the hell some of the climbs are supposed to be. Red rocks isn't in the middle of nowhere where routes get seldom done like here in the PNW. The long "adventure climbs" are 1/2 hour from a major city with 1,000s of people climbing there every day! Also, there are millions of climbs in the world. Lets say you wanna do one so you go your way and wind up a loose rotten climb with only one good 10b pitch or something and the rest is all 5.2. With a good guide you can see this from the topo. Now you can pick a climb that has lots of good pitches and will wind up seeming like just as an adventure anways. There are too many climbs to waste time on with soo many good ones out there. With a good guide, you can pick you route much better. I lived in redrocks and climbed a shitload of long routes there, and a handfull of sport routes and get just as pissed as the one time visitors when the photo of their climb was taken from a hotel window, or no info at all is described as to what the start of climb looks like or where it is. Better yet, his descent info can get you killed since he is just dead WRONG sometimes. Instead of "descend down left" he'll fill in the description with shit like, "you'll be singing the blues on this one" or some dumb as comment. Swain blows. As for sport climb guidebooks...they gotta find their climbs too. They should be the most useful of all guidebooks since there are so many climbs packed into a small space. Obscure guidbooks: Yeah, Budro's WA pass guidebooks is really stupid, BUT it did have some climbs not listed elsewhere until recently. City of Rocks suck pretty bad (except for the tiny little classic climbs by chockstone). Edited June 10, 2003 by michael_layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I think that Alan Watts new Smith Rock Guide is going to be the best ever - I talked to him this spring, and he said he re-drew all of the walls and was a lot more careful in the details. He spent two years on the revisions and topos. If it is a major improvement over his last drawings, it's going to be a fuckin' work of art, I predict. Out of the area, the Red River Gorge guide is a nice piece of work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Heya! Lol I guess I am an arrogant idiot . But a darn nice one . Your points are well taken and I like my new title as well! But yeah the lethal descents aspect of Red Rocks routes makes them fairly serious undertakings w/o the proper beta. I guess I am just a closet misanthrope that chooses to come out periodically. LOL be safe and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 MisterE and others said: Oh, yeah - the Squamish guide is the best by far, methinks I guess you've never seen any of the old Squaimsh ones then. The new one pales in comparison. Not bad. Just could be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 iceguy said: Beckey guides . End of story. AND you get a free bottle of ibuprophen with each copy (limited time only, restrictions may apply, void where prohibited)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crack Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 (edited) 50 classics and nelson's for the PNW Edited June 11, 2003 by Crack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 I'll second Chirp's nomination of Paul Piana's 'Touch the Sky' guidebook for the Black Hill Needles as one of the best. Awesome history and excellent maps for finding the climbs in the maze of granite spires there. Trivia: anybody else ever seen the ancient guide to Pallisades Park, SD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted June 12, 2003 Author Share Posted June 12, 2003 chirp said: Heya! Lol I guess I am an arrogant idiot . But a darn nice one . Your points are well taken and I like my new title as well! But yeah the lethal descents aspect of Red Rocks routes makes them fairly serious undertakings w/o the proper beta. I guess I am just a closet misanthrope that chooses to come out periodically. LOL be safe and have fun! Sorry, I ran out of pain meds and was grumpy. Cheers, -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Gunkholing In The San Juans - Bailley/Nyberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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