Trees and Index

[allthumbs]

The haircut analogy is perfect. Shit grows back fast in this country. It's next to impossible to really kill a plant around here, except in my living room.

[catbirdseat]

I was wondering who cut the trees on Logger's Ledge on Castle Rock. Those trees will never grow back because of the drier environment. That was a very bad move as the shade would have been welcome.

[Dru]

catbirdseat said:

I was wondering who cut the trees on Logger's Ledge on Castle Rock. Those trees will never grow back because of the drier environment. That was a very bad move as the shade would have been welcome.

 

it was Beckey and Schoening. it was a very GOOD move as the moss and dirt would have been most unwelcome.

 

 

and the reason the trees will never grow back on LL is because of the hordes of climbers up there trampling any seedlings that do sprout.

[mattp]

Careful there, Catbird. If you insult "the man," you'll have an angry Caveman to contend with.

 

As to Index, I remember when somebody cut down about 200 Alders at the base of the lower town wall about 20 years ago. They did kind of a messy job of it (is there a "neat" way to cut down 200 alders?), and many people thought poorly of it at the time. Within a couple of years, though, it looked just fine and I think that in retrospect most Index climbers of the era are glad that it was done.

 

While, as Lummox pointed out, it may not be a good idea to draw attention to climbers' arrogance by cutting down a bunch of trees without landowner permission -- even if we all did agree that the trees at the base of the wall should go -- and while Sphinx might really freak out if somebody repeated what was done 20 years ago, I don't think the kind of small-scale pruning that Mr. K mentioned would offend very many. I didn't read him to suggest he was advocating slashing the trees and leaving a bunch of stumps behind, but actually something more like the kind of pruning and maintenance that most of us would expect in a park, or that we do in our yards.

[catbirdseat]

Dru said:

it was Beckey and Schoening. it was a very GOOD move as the moss and dirt would have been most unwelcome.

 

 

and the reason the trees will never grow back on LL is because of the hordes of climbers up there trampling any seedlings that do sprout.

You're right about the trampling. As I said, it is a much drier environment. A few Ponderosa pines aren't going to make the moss grow like at Index. It's a shame they didn't leave one or two. Anyway, I realize that you can't judge someone's ethics 40 years ago by today's standards.

[Stefan]

AlpineK said:

Removing and pruning would cut back on the dank mossy factor at the base of routes.

 

The dank mossy factor is PART of the climb and the problem to solve that presents itself to you. I am not a tree hugger. I am also not a bolter...if I can't climb something without my own physical abilities, then I should not climb it.

 

The only reason you probably want to remove the mossy factor is to make the climb easier or more enjoyable. Hell, alot of people climb becuase it is NOT easy and sometimes it is NOT enjoyable.

[chucK]

I think the deal with Castle Rock is that it was a training area for "real climbing". I would guess that those hardmen of old would often train when it wasn't yet "real climbing" season, i.e. not the summer. When it's not the summer, sunshine is quite welcome at Castle.

 

 

[Szyjakowski]

catbirdseat said:

I was wondering who cut the trees on Logger's Ledge on Castle Rock. Those trees will never grow back because of the drier environment. That was a very bad move as the shade would have been welcome.

just don't climb there in the hot midday sun and its marvelous!

[Dru]

CBS maybe you should climb something on the shaded north side of the Rock like the upper pitches of Saints, or Angel, or North Ridge, before ya say there is not a moss problem. talk about magic carpets!

 

I even challenge your description of Ponderosas up there. More likely dry-phase Douglas Firs.

[chucK]

Stefan said:

Hell, alot of people climb becuase it is NOT easy and sometimes it is NOT enjoyable.

 

That sums up many people's Index motivations

[Lambone]

Hey AlpineK,

 

Keep in mind that those same trees give us shade on hot summer days....

 

You can allways put warmer clothes on, but can only strip so much off. I like the trees at index and would be bummed/pissed if you cut them down.

 

Just my opinion...

[Szyjakowski]

yeah K go cut some trees in Darrington.

there is many menacing beasts guarding all those crack lines...

[catbirdseat]

Dru said:

CBS maybe you should climb something on the shaded north side of the Rock like the upper pitches of Saints, or Angel, or North Ridge, before ya say there is not a moss problem. talk about magic carpets!

 

I even challenge your description of Ponderosas up there. More likely dry-phase Douglas Firs.

You're the tree expert, Dru. There's a good reason I haven't climbed the north side. I'm not good enough yet.

[chucK]

I know a tree I want cut down at Darrington. Mattp probably has a picture somewhere of me and the tree.

[Dru]

North Ridge is 5.5!!!

 

With 5.9++ dirt excavation and moss trundling skill required

[Szyjakowski]

i know of 100trees there that need a good wacking

[Dru]

Kurt

 

After you cut down the trees

Make a fucking huge green wet smoky bonfire

And roast pig.

[chucK]

I think he should chip 'em and put a big soft pile of chips at the base of that 10c corner below the Slab.

 

Carpeting the parking lot with soft aromatic chips would be nice too, for the apres-crag experience .

[fern]

I admire your good citizenship by asking for opinions before hauling the axe out ... but probably you shoulda just gone out on a rainy day and done the work anonymously relying on your own common sense and judgement. ... now no matter who chops a tree and how hacked up a job they do you will get the blame .

 

 

[Bronco]

Let me know if you want some help Kurt.

[mattp]

You are right about that, Fern. Post an inquiry on this board - about absolutely any subject at all - and you're sure to get the usual noisy responses. Perhaps, however, Mr. K hopes that folks will think about an issue that matters to him and he is not actually seeking permission from cascadeclimbers.com spray-junkies.

[iain]

who owns the property? just wondering. no one would disagree with the spring thing at smith, which seems similar.

[Sphinx]

Smith is already overrun with trails and climbers. The place has been so trashed, it's damage control that the SpringThing focuses on. Leave the trees at Index alone.

[mattp]

Sphinx and 'Bone -

Are you suggesting there is no room for any tree-pruning at Index? K noted two specific trees, or clumps of trees. Do you think those are rare gems that should be protected or is it just the idea of some madman running around with a chainsaw that you worry about? Do you know that before the climbers got there, what is probably the most popular climb at Index - Great Northern Slab - was a bushy mess and trees used to thrive where there is now that belay station near the top of the slab and the crack was completely invisible?

[David_Parker]

There's always the pendulum; people don't like all bolts, some bolts, no bolts. Others feel trees should be left totally alone, pruned occasionally, cut down. It seems AK was talking about pruning, not cutting down an entire tree. Well we do that all through the National Forest, Parks etc. It's called trail maintenance! I would rather have Kurt do it than anybody else. I trust his professionalism. He is obviously an advocate of the environment because he values the time he spends in the wilderness. That doesn't mean some tasteful improvment of a developed climbing area is bad. I personally don't appreciate the total hands off attitude because I find it hypocritical and unrealistic. Kurt's pendulum seems to be somewhere in the middle and I respect that. Sometimes its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. GO FOR IT KURT!

Edited June 2, 2003 by David_Parker