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dryad

Hey mountie bashers

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adventuregal said:

Ok, so here's a sort of related question. I want to do A LOT of climbing this summer... Not only climb, but learn a ton more about it too. I am a newbie of a mere 3 months. The thing I worry about, seeing as how I have no experience, is how to know if my partners are safe?! I have nothing to compare them to! I think I know most of the people I plan on climbing with well enough to trust them. But say I meet some random in HR and decide to climb with them? What do I look for in a partner? I know a very minimal amount of safety stuff. And no, I won't have time to take a class. Now that I am done with school and can leisure read again, there are a few books on my reading list which should help me out in this regard, but still... I get nervous about it. Any ideas?

 

How many PM's from desparate guys have you gotten already? yellaf.gif

(you should be receiving one from me shortly wink.gif)

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Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

Would a copperheading mountie basher be a bashie mounter?

 

Indeed, they would.

hahaha.gifbigdrink.gif

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The Mounties are a great place for folks to learn. Ultimatly they do us all a great service by keeping most newcomers safe (and together) while they mantle the learning curve.

 

They are simply ripe targets waiting to be barbed at the same time. No harm...just alot of good lovin for our less experienced bros and sisters in the field.

 

The folks that truly have a prob with the Mounties are the ones that climb at Mountie grade pitty.gif

 

You'll move on and leave em behind with time.

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Ursa_Eagle said:

adventuregal said:

Ok, so here's a sort of related question. I want to do A LOT of climbing this summer... Not only climb, but learn a ton more about it too. I am a newbie of a mere 3 months. The thing I worry about, seeing as how I have no experience, is how to know if my partners are safe?! I have nothing to compare them to! I think I know most of the people I plan on climbing with well enough to trust them. But say I meet some random in HR and decide to climb with them? What do I look for in a partner? I know a very minimal amount of safety stuff. And no, I won't have time to take a class. Now that I am done with school and can leisure read again, there are a few books on my reading list which should help me out in this regard, but still... I get nervous about it. Any ideas?

 

How many PM's from desparate guys have you gotten already? yellaf.gif

(you should be receiving one from me shortly wink.gif)

 

Dear Adventure Gal -

 

I don't want to take you climbing, but I'll lay around the beach with you on a hot summer day, any ol' time. PM me when you're horny....OOPS, I mean if interested.

 

the new, improved Trask

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trask said:

 

Dear Adventure Gal -

 

I don't want to take you climbing, but I'll lay around the beach with you on a hot summer day, any ol' time. PM me when you're horny....OOPS, I mean if interested.

 

the new, improved Trask

 

rolleyes.gifyellowsleep.gif

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Adventuregal:

 

Best way to insure safety when climbing with partners you don't know well and you dont have a lot of experience is pretty basic: ask questions. If they can't answer any questions you ask then I'd start to get a little worried.

 

For example, why do you use a figure 8 to tie in with rather than a doubled bowline? Can you show me how to equalize an anchor? Even if you know the answers ask anyway. I always learn something new from various partners and I've been climbing a long time. Follow your instincts too. Stay away from Trask.

 

Come to a Portland Pub Club so ChrisT doesn't get overwhelmed by testosterone.

 

 

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hakioawa said:

bigdrink.gifbigdrink.giffruit.gifrockband.gifrockband.gifrockband.gif

 

What have you done with the real dfa! He couldn't possibly know what a copper head is.

Copperhead (cop'-er-hed) n, v: 1. something you've read about in books and magazines and pray to God you never encounter in real life 2. to place the aforementioned, see aid, also clusterfuck

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rbw1966 said:

Adventuregal:

 

 

For example, why do you use a figure 8 to tie in with rather than a doubled bowline?

 

 

Actually, why would you use a figure 8 to tie in when the DBBB is smaller and you can actually untie it after dogging the hell out of some savage project? The fig. 8 is old-school, yo; get with the newness.

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Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

rbw1966 said:

Adventuregal:

 

 

For example, why do you use a figure 8 to tie in with rather than a doubled bowline?

 

 

Actually, why would you use a figure 8 to tie in when the DBBB is smaller and you can actually untie it after dogging the hell out of some savage project? The fig. 8 is old-school, yo; get with the newness.

 

Figure 8 is easier to inspect when taking newbies climbing. I didn't ask what were the relative merits of each knot. Sorry for the confusion.

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dryad said:

Seems to me that it wouldn't happen very often. I hope I'm wrong here. Please prove me wrong and adopt a newbie. We all have to start somewhere.

 

Ok, despite my poking fun at dryad in the initial post, there are some real legit questions here that relate to "Newbies" (so I am moving this to the Newbie forum), but they are really good questions and can be hard to answer.

 

Dryad: your question is legit, but your assumptions that all climbers out there are looking to get laid/getting laid by their partners is bogus. Some are, a great majority arent. How do you get a more experienced partner to take you out? You have to meet them first. Then you have to see if they are compatible: similar views, similar goals? Can they hold a conversation about something other than climbing for the long drives, car camping, and belay ledges? You can get taken by a more experienced climber by being fit, being a good climber in general on top-rope, and being a very good and attentiive belayer. No one wants to take a newbie up something they can lead, but newbie can't follow. No one wants to take a newbie on a trip where their lack of conditioning will make the day drag on at an intolerable pace. No one wants to be leading and look down to see newbie chatting away with party on next route, not paying attention. Or worse, getting dropped. The climbing, belaying, and conditioning can all be attained in the gym and outside of climbing. The gym is a GREAT place to meet people. I boulder at Vertical World (Redmond) and alreay feel comfortable enough there that I could walk up to someone, and say "hey, I just saw you send the V4. Do you climb outside? Would you like to go to 38 after work next week? I'll belay you up a few, if I can TR them".

 

adventuregal said:

I want to do A LOT of climbing this summer... Not only climb, but learn a ton more about it too. The thing I worry about is how to know if my partners are safe?! I have nothing to compare them to! What do I look for in a partner? And no, I won't have time to take a class. Now that I am done with school and can leisure read again, there are a few books on my reading list which should help me out in this regard, but still... I get nervous about it. Any ideas?

 

adventuregal asks some really good, age-old questions. These have all been answered before, but the answers arent easy, and often arent satisfying.

 

You hint at something that bothers me though: you want to do ALOT of climbing, are out of school (?), and yet are unwilling to take the time to take a class? The class time might be the best time spent for you, I wouldnt dismiss it as an option. You could learn much more from a personal, 2-day guided trip than weeks of climbing with someone. "Classes" dont always have to mean "The Mountaineers Basic Course" or "NOLS" or something. Anyway...

 

How to know a partner is safe? Safe is relative. Very relative. You will never know a partner is safe until you completly understand the systems you are using to keep you safe: rope, anchors, belay, etc. Even then, "safe climbing" is completely linked to how much risk someone is willing to accept. Is a person who clips into and belays from a single bolt anchor (p5, Outer Space) an unsafe climber? Is a person who belays a leader without clipping to an anchor on the ground unsafe? Is someone who wants to simulclimb the next pitch of 4th class rock safe? My suggestions are: learn from a guide or an extremely trusted, competant friend how to belay. Learn how to always check knots and harnesses. Everytime you clean a trad pitch, check every piece. Check every anchor. Understand the system. Then you will begin to be able to assess safety to some degree. It takes ALOT of experience! I have been climbing 15 years and even now I sometimes do things that are "unsafe". These can range from tying in wrong, to consciously deciding to forego x, y, and z. Am I an unsafe climber?

 

What do I like for in a partner? First and foremost: I look for safety and competence at the craft. Can this person get themselves and me out of a jam? Second I look for compatibility. Will I be mentally bored hanging out with this person? Will they be mentally bored with me? Third I look for contribution - what do you bring to the partnership, besides sexual favors? Are you a good, patient, attentive belayer? Are you completely willing to split costs? Split driving? Carry your share of the load? Fourth I look for chemistry. Does our combined energy push us as a team to accomplish our goals, greater goals and greater good times, or do we have mediochre times together? There are alot of other simple qualities, like complaining (which is ok in moderation, as long as its legit), speed (are you a really slow hiker?? try to keep up). You can go on forever.

 

What makes a good climbing partnership? Like any good personal relationship: trust, tolerance, mutual respect, humor, mutual contribution, alot of work, sacrifice. So many other factors.

 

Dryad and adventuregal, and anyone else interested in getting out with more experienced people, the first step is to meet people. Go to the gym. Go to Pub Club!!! There are many many many excellent people at pub club. Post often in partners wanted on this board.

 

Be solid in your basic skills. If you dont know REAL basic skills, like how to tie in, how to belay, take a class. Hire a guide. Really, there are good options out there to learn the very basics.

 

One thing I would like to add: DO NOT trust anyone you meet at Marrymoor Climbing park. That place is really kind of scary. Lots of good climbers lurk there, but lots of really unsafe people too.

 

Good luck, Alex

Cheers, Alex

 

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Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

hakioawa said:

bigdrink.gifbigdrink.giffruit.gifrockband.gifrockband.gifrockband.gif

 

What have you done with the real dfa! He couldn't possibly know what a copper head is.

Copperhead (cop'-er-hed) n, v: 1. something you've read about in books and magazines and pray to God you never encounter in real life 2. to place the aforementioned, see aid, also clusterfuck

 

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAA yellaf.gifHHHHHAAAAA

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Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

The double-bowline with a bowline backup unties itself? Love to see that happen, but can't imagine how it would?

 

DBBB

 

sport-5.jpg

 

wave.gif

 

didn't a guy die at index after his bowline came undone? thought i read something about that...

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Smoker said:

I have taken the time to climb with a few folks of various ability/experience and I seem to see 2 basic types of rookie.

 

Some climbers will question almost everything that happens i.e anchor inspection,rap stations (why do we back this up when we didn't before) belay stances etc.

 

Other climbers will simply follow leads, clean gear with out looking, clip into anchors without ever inspecting/comprehending what the nature of the anchor is etc....

 

the first type of climber will benefit from spending time with an experienced partner and improve their skills ultimatly becoming an asset to a partnership.

 

The second type will be a hazzard to climb with and they tend to want to get on the sharp end simply due to the amount time spent following.

 

I am painting with a fairly broad brush but this has been my experience....what camp is your tent pitched in?

I've climbed with dryad before and I can tell you that she asks a ton of good questions. She is getting to the point where she knows enough that she should start dipping her toe in the waters of leading. She has been reluctant to start, but is starting to come around to the idea.

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Retrosaurus said:

dryad said:

...Please prove me wrong ...

I have mentored probably 20-30 beginners, so far.

retro is a nice guy too!

 

DFA- do you know the KISS accronym?

why change a good thing? the figure8 is easy to tie and easy to untie...YOU just need to bulk up those finger muscles... hahaha.gif

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Szyjakowski said:

 

 

DFA- do you know the KISS accronym?

why change a good thing? the figure8 is easy to tie and easy to untie...YOU just need to bulk up those finger muscles... hahaha.gif

 

This is so damn funny. The DBBB is not a whit more complicated than the F.-8. It's just as safe, it's easier to untie after being weighted, it's compact, you'll never accidentally pull your not-fully-untied knot up to the anchors where it will then create a huge clusterhassle for you, and you're not likely to leave it half-tied and just hanging through your harness while you get distracted by something else.

 

Indeed, why change a good thing? Because there's a better thing to change to. Sheesh! rolleyes.gif

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Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

Szyjakowski said:

 

 

DFA- do you know the KISS accronym?

why change a good thing? the figure8 is easy to tie and easy to untie...YOU just need to bulk up those finger muscles... hahaha.gif

 

This is so damn funny. The DBBB is not a whit more complicated than the F.-8. It's just as safe, it's easier to untie after being weighted, it's compact, you'll never accidentally pull your not-fully-untied knot up to the anchors where it will then create a huge clusterhassle for you, and you're not likely to leave it half-tied and just hanging through your harness while you get distracted by something else.

 

Indeed, why change a good thing? Because there's a better thing to change to. Sheesh! rolleyes.gif

like i said bulk up those finger muscles!

also don't get so distracted and pay the fuck attention and you won't forget to finish tying your knot.

bigdrink.gif

 

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Szyjakowski said:

Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

Szyjakowski said:

 

 

DFA- do you know the KISS accronym?

why change a good thing? the figure8 is easy to tie and easy to untie...YOU just need to bulk up those finger muscles... hahaha.gif

 

This is so damn funny. The DBBB is not a whit more complicated than the F.-8. It's just as safe, it's easier to untie after being weighted, it's compact, you'll never accidentally pull your not-fully-untied knot up to the anchors where it will then create a huge clusterhassle for you, and you're not likely to leave it half-tied and just hanging through your harness while you get distracted by something else.

 

Indeed, why change a good thing? Because there's a better thing to change to. Sheesh! rolleyes.gif

like i said bulk up those finger muscles!

also don't get so distracted and pay the fuck attention and you won't forget to finish tying your knot.

bigdrink.gif

 

Cool, have fun wrestling with that fully welded figure-eight next time you take a few plummets from the route du jour. DFA will doubtless knock off several extra pitches as a direct result of not having to dink with a preposterously hyper-tight knot after every route.

 

Sucker! Geek_em8.gif

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never accidentally pull your not-fully-untied knot up to the anchors where it will then create a huge clusterhassle

 

has anyone ever actually done this?!?! if you have...let me know, cause i dont wanna climb with you...

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