Cornices?

[Terminal_Gravity]

I tunneled through my first cornice last weekend. It was about fifteen feet thick and overhung about 8 feet. The snow was well consolidated by wind but was fairly light and removed very easily. Digging was fast. The approach was about 30-35°.

I gotta say I was a bit intimidated (okay, I was scared shitless).

So, here's the question. What is the safest line to take when tunneling? I don't remember reading about cornice tunneling in any of the self help manuals. I tried to stay inside of what I guessed would be the sheer line. My guess was 60° from the start of the over hang.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Cornice tunneling now that is friggin cool shit!

[hikerwa]

Cornice tunneling can be very "interesting". Depending on the consolidation of snow it is an iffy way to get past one. It sounds like yours was pretty ideal for punching up through, although if theres a way around I'll usually take that. I guess my rule when I have to, is dig fast! and get past it quick, most cornices are not real stable...

Sounds like you had some fun, I spent the whole weekend getting pelted with smowballs from two fiesty kids!!!

[Terminal_Gravity]

hikerwa, sound like you had fun too.

[Bronco]

from Freedom of the Hills Pg 320

"Climbers sometimes even push directly through a cornince to force their way to a ridge crest or pass. Its easiest to penetrate an overhang at a rocky spur or where the cornice already has partially collapsed. The leader cuts straight uphill at the point of least overhang, undermining as little of the mass as possible. Generally, though, the safest bet with cornices is to avoid traveling on them, under them or through them."

Hope that helps.

[philfort]

Where was the cornice you tunneled through? Just practise, or was it part of a climb?

[philfort]

Snow not too good yet in the Cascades... but did anyone seen the footage of the Olympics filmed by King 5's helicopter on Friday? Wow... looked totally amazing - they were skimming along super-steep knife-edged corniced ridge lines.

[texplorer]

Holy Gri Gri's Caveman,

It's Cornicopia!!!!!!

[Cpt.Caveman]

I sold Fred that greenage in Phil's autosig

[AlpineK]

A long time ago I had the privilege of tunneling through a cornice at the top of a route called Photo Finish on Mt. Andromeda up in the C. Rockies. The route was great, getting steeper and steeper as you approached the summit. The top of Andromeda is a big plateau, and there was a cornice that hung over the whole face we were climbing. We tried to traverse to get around the cornice, but the only way to summit was to go through it. At the time I had never read anything, and I still haven't, about tunneling, but it was the only thing to do. I started digging, while standing on 70-80 degree ice, making a trough through the snow so I could get my ice tools in and get up to the cornice. Once there I just dug. I don't know anything about some fancy assed technique, I just dug. I eventually poked a hole through the cornice and we climbed through to the summit.

All I have to say is don't do it unless you are forced to, and don't email me for a more precise description of my technique.

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

[Cpt.Caveman]

Bitch I am sending all email inquiries right to you hehehhe

[David_Parker]

Did you have a shovel or just Ice tools?

[Terminal_Gravity]

Thanks Bronco

Philfort;It was on traverse ridge in the wallowa mountains (my local area). The snow has been building really well so far this year. The cornice was just for practice. It was something that I have always wanted to do in case it comes up on a real climb. It was about 17°F and lightly snowing. The wind was blowing parallel to the face so it was not further loading the cornice. It seemed to be as safe as possible. So, I went for it.

[AlpineK]

I had a shovel. We could see the cornice from down on the parkway and thought we should be ready to dig.

[DPS]

I once aided over a cornice on pickets.

[Terminal_Gravity]

I definitly had a shovel too.

DPS, aiding on pickets sounds like the epitimy of hair ball.

One little comment...The temptation was to sort of Chimney against the back wall as I dug up; but I felt like that added stress to the pack so I didn't. My cornice was a lot easier than AlpineK's sounds. I used poles to get to it and my axe was more in my way than useful.

[DPS]

I thought the pickets would hold more than the last piece of rock pro I had-an upside down knifeblade in an expando flake that was creeping out under my body weight.

[Dru]

dont stand right under where you are digging the tunnel - you get snow down your 1-piece.

cut yourself some big bucket holds to stand in first

other than that its just vertical snow caving!

(dug through 1 cornice in his life)

[Bronco]

More info Terminal Gooseberry:

You probably already know this stuff, but I thought I would put it out there for the benefit of other gumbies.

There are some diagrams on page 490 in Freedom of the Hills relating to judging fracture lines based on how "mature" the cornice is. Seems that the older and more snow that is built up, the fracture line grows more verticle in realtion to the upper surface of the snow, and the cornice becomes more unstable, obviously.

Personally - cornices are really intimidating , it's not a matter of if they will come down, but when and where do you want to be when they do? (probably not inside them thinking, "oops") However, if a very experienced climber is totally in tune with the stability of the snowpack the tunneling can probably be performed with some degree of safty. But not by me!

[Cpt.Caveman]

I have yet to tunnel into some cornices. However I tunneled through 65 feet of 4 sided chimney saturday and it was fun