Hydrogen car

[Dru]

hydrogen muscle

[Fejas]

flowmaster... nuff said...

[COL._Von_Spanker]

JoshK said:

'tis true, nothing like the sound of a nice V8. That's why I really want to smack around the dipshit riceboys and there coffee-canned POS civics. Worthless fucks. bbbaawwwwwww!!! For fuck's sake, your car sounds like a weedwhacker on crack, asswipe!

 

Yeah, why do people think a car that sounds like a lawnmower is cool? The only cool car sound is an F1 going by at full speed.

[allthumbs]

Yeah man, what he said dood, and like I want a honda civic man with a ss steel exhaust sysstem dood and like a bolt on spoiler dood. yo rockin man

[Dru]

yall need bitchin stereo with high enough bass SPM that you can never hear your engine

 

just a doppler shifted boom...boom boom BOOM BOOM HANGIN IN DA HOOD WITH MY HO BOOM BOOM boom boom....boom

[allthumbs]

I'm down wit dat yo

[Dan_Harris]

Dru said:

catbirdseat said:

Mr._Natural said:

what the fuck is your problem dude? my point is that from my limited understanding commercially available hydrogen fuel will be produced by burning coal. do you have anything intelligent to add or do you just want to talk shit?

For those of you who don't already know, hydrogen is produced by electrolysis of water. The electricity needed for this can be generated by any number of means, from fossil fuels such as natural gas or coal to solar wind farms, etc.

 

It would be great if fuel cells could use natural gas directly because it is more readily available. At one time the focus was on onboard reformer system to convert natural gas or methanol into hydrogen and CO2, but it now appears that the plan is to store compressed hydrogen produced in large stationary plants. As the lightest gas, it is one of the hardest to store because of the pratical impossibility of liquifying it as they do on the Space Shuttle. Instead it will be stored as a compressed gas at high pressures. There is potential danger in that.

 

you mean like the potential danger of gasoline and match?

 

You sure need to protect the fuel cell from rupture in an accident. See film of the Hindenburg. Hell of a BBQ, and no toxic gasses.

Edited April 11, 2003 by Dan_Harris

[catbirdseat]

Dan_Harris saidYou sure need to protect the fuel cell from rupture in an accident. See film of the Hindenburg. Hell of a BBQ, and no toxic gasses.

Indeed, hydrogen is many more times more dangerous than gasoline.

[iain]

ugh it's been demonstrated thoroughly that the hindenberg would have burned to the ground just the same w/o hydrogen. The skin material is what burned so effectively and with length. the hydrogen was gone almost instantaneously.

[Scott_J]

For those of you who don't already know, hydrogen is produced by electrolysis of water. The electricity needed for this can be generated by any number of means, from fossil fuels such as natural gas or coal to solar wind farms, etc.

 

It would be great if fuel cells could use natural gas directly because it is more readily available. At one time the focus was on onboard reformer system to convert natural gas or methanol into hydrogen and CO2, but it now appears that the plan is to store compressed hydrogen produced in large stationary plants. As the lightest gas, it is one of the hardest to store because of the pratical impossibility of liquifying it as they do on the Space Shuttle. Instead it will be stored as a compressed gas at high pressures. There is potential danger in that.

I've worked with these plants in Alaska at a power plant on the otherside of Cook Inlet. They made the hydrogen and used it for bearing seals. You see regular old seals melt because of the extreme heat that a stationary gas turbin puts out and the hydrogen can hold the oil in place. Its really cool to do an evening inspection of the plant with a low light and see the oil glow while its lubeing the bearing (the oil has phosphoreous in it to keep it from flashing)

Anyway, on with the story, the "hydrogen shed" had green, yellow and red lights on a control board that was located about 50 yards from the shed itself. One day we go down to inspect it(always 2 for a plant inspection-reading) and see that the red lights are on. So we notify the control room with is a loong way off. They tell us that they are sending a couple more guys to help us if we need it. While those guys are coming we stick our heads out of the back door. The shed seems OK nothing looks amiss, so we tell 'em we are going a little closer to have a look-see. We get around to the entry door and see that there is no back to the "hydrogen-shed", the roof is gone, the hydrogen collection bell is wrapped around a I-beam about 25 feet up in the air and all the electronic equipment is either blasted to hell and gone or is fryed to hell. All the metals involved in the hydrogen manufacturing process were brass. That brass bell was a big bugger and it took a lot of cutting to get it off the I-beam. The metal roof and metal walls were found about 100 yds away in the bush. Needless to say it was not a good day. Now we had to order hydrogen bottles from Anchorage (expensive), get a team over to inspect, take apart the old building and rebuild a new and better "hydrogen-shed".

 

[angus]

catbirdseat said:

Dan_Harris saidYou sure need to protect the fuel cell from rupture in an accident. See film of the Hindenburg. Hell of a BBQ, and no toxic gasses.

Indeed, hydrogen is many more times more dangerous than gasoline.

 

It is not more dangerous than gasoline. Hydrogen will often burn so fast that a person would likely survive standing in the cloud that came out of their fuel cell when it ignited. Try that with Gasoline. Hydrogen is however dangerous if compressed and then heated. An example of this would be if a Gasoline tank ruptured and burned around the unruptured hydrogen tank. Take a look at the death toll for the hindenburg. It was suprisingly low.

[catbirdseat]

It is not more dangerous than gasoline. Hydrogen will often burn so fast that a person would likely survive standing in the cloud that came out of their fuel cell when it ignited. Try that with Gasoline. Hydrogen is however dangerous if compressed and then heated. An example of this would be if a Gasoline tank ruptured and burned around the unruptured hydrogen tank. Take a look at the death toll for the hindenburg. It was suprisingly low.

Cars are built with a lot of plastic and plastic burns. If a hydrogen powered car were to catch fire, I wouldn't want to stand around to see what happens.

[Dru]

catbirdseat said:

It is not more dangerous than gasoline. Hydrogen will often burn so fast that a person would likely survive standing in the cloud that came out of their fuel cell when it ignited. Try that with Gasoline. Hydrogen is however dangerous if compressed and then heated. An example of this would be if a Gasoline tank ruptured and burned around the unruptured hydrogen tank. Take a look at the death toll for the hindenburg. It was suprisingly low.

Cars are built with a lot of plastic and plastic burns. If a hydrogen powered car were to catch fire, I wouldn't want to stand around to see what happens.

 

if everybody thought like you the price of a new horse these days would be outrageously high, and think of the methane emissions from all the horse farts.

[iain]

what do you call an amish guy with his hand up a horse's ass?

 

a mechanic

[Dan_Harris]

Several of you are right. The skin of the Hindenburg was coated with a very flammable material and that was what made it so spectacular. There is also much plastic in a car that burns very toxic, whether the car is gas or hydrogen powered. And yes, hydrogen actually wouldn't burn, it would explode! I saw a demo at a Science get together where a childs balloon filled with hydrogen was touched with a candle. Very loud and shook the entire floor of the auditorium. I have made soap bubbles in a petri dish with hydrogen and tossed a lighted match onto it. Also a pretty large bang. Even the little hydrogen generated from HCl on zinc in a test tube makes a nice pop. I am all for trying to reduce the use of fossil fuels, but still wonder about the safety of hydrogen fuel cells. Also, the creation of hydrogen is from the electrolysis of water. How much more electricity will needed to be generated to produce the hydrogen?

[iain]

I thought Bill Nye lived up in Seattle what's your take on the vinegar volcano?

[AlpineK]

catbirdseat said:

It is not more dangerous than gasoline. Hydrogen will often burn so fast that a person would likely survive standing in the cloud that came out of their fuel cell when it ignited. Try that with Gasoline. Hydrogen is however dangerous if compressed and then heated. An example of this would be if a Gasoline tank ruptured and burned around the unruptured hydrogen tank. Take a look at the death toll for the hindenburg. It was suprisingly low.

Cars are built with a lot of plastic and plastic burns. If a hydrogen powered car were to catch fire, I wouldn't want to stand around to see what happens.

 

Actually some folks have done tests on this subject. They compared a ruptured hydogen tank to a gas fire. The hydogen tank sent off a vertical jet of fire destroying the trunk of the car whereas the gas fire burned the whole car.

 

Hydrogen dissipates very rapidly cause it's a very light gas. Like Ian said the Hindenburg had little to do with hydrogen.

[A7U]

angus said:

 

 

It is not more dangerous than gasoline. Hydrogen will often burn so fast that a person would likely survive standing in the cloud that came out of their fuel cell when it ignited.

 

Says who? Where did that factoid come from? The reaction between H and O is the most energetic non-nuclear chemical reaction in nature. Survival? Maybe, for a few hours...all the flesh will be blistered off your bones. You make it sound like walking through a cloud of low-pressure steam.

[Dan_Harris]

iain said:

I thought Bill Nye lived up in Seattle what's your take on the vinegar volcano?

Bill Nye lives in Seattle? I'll need to look him up next time I'm up that way. Vinegar volcanoes are boring. I like my demos to be more exciting. Burning magnesium between two blocks of dry ice, methane bubbles, air pressure crushing cans, etc.

[Scott_J]

Is there anyone out there old enough to remember the sodium explosion during graduation at the UofW? It was thrown into the fountain outside of the chem lab. hahahaha

baaaaawooooommmmmm and a whole lot of water went up into the air.

Great stuff sodium, nitrogen, hydrogen, charcoal, salt peter, sulfur, fuel oil, magnesium & barium peroxide (powdered of course),iron oxide, aluminum powder, etc., etc.