two more overdue climbers

[layton]

I know Kerin and Bree. That was their training mission for the W.Rib of Denali. I won't say more in case they are reading this. Hi guys, wait until I tell Jay and Derek. I may get my $5 early.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

Seeing as how this whole story has a happy ending, I can't help but laugh the more I think about the whole thing. There they are lounging on the rocks eatin HC and laughing about how they got a few extra days of work. Meanwhile Jim Forman and a whole cast of characters are live from the paradise parking lot bringing us "Rainier Rescue '03".

 

I hope the frostbite heals well.

 

 

 

[j_b]

They were reported missing Sunday by one of their wives when the pair did not return Sunday as scheduled

 

i am curious, do people want to be reported missing on due day or do you want to wait 24 hours?

[Dru]

i dont tell anyone where im going so it will prob be a few days before anyone notices the gaping lack of spray.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

That's tough. It seems like if you were overdue, the people back home that know you are overdue should at least let the ranger know that you are overdue, just as a heads up, though that would still turn into a new fiasco.

[minx]

i tell one or two people where i'm going and try and give them a rough idea of how well equipped i am to spend a couple extra days. they can use their judgement. i never tell my mother though...she'd have rangers waiting for me if i were an hour late! pick your contact wisely!

[Government_Watch_Dog]

After second thought, Mattp and Duchess are correct.

Edited February 20, 2003 by Government_Watch_Dog

[chelle]

j_b said:

 

i am curious, do people want to be reported missing on due day or do you want to wait 24 hours?

 

I use the 24 hour rule.

[klenke]

Next time I go to climb Mt. Rainier, I'm going to call the media and search and rescue before I even leave my house. I'm going to tell them "I'm going to go lose myself." No doubt they'll be there at the trailhead before I am. I will arrive with much fanfare--a live television interview with CNN--before I even get onto the trail. If they bribe me, I may let them rescue me before I even lose sight of the parking lot.

[Bug]

My "due time" for my wife's info is 24hrs after I expect to return. That mailman doesn't hang around anymore.

[mattp]

Settle down there, WatchDog. You suggest utter disdain for "so called" experience climbers who would be so bold as to head up Mount Rainier with only one bivvy sack and no shovel and no beacon, "barely any food and no water." While I have a hard time imagining not taking ANY water (do you know for a fact that this is true??), I can tell you that plenty of folks who post on this board would not think it irresponsible to set out from Paradise without the shovel, beacon, or more than a moderate amount of food, and no bivvy bag. Lots of us have arrived at an alpine campsite to find that our stove doesn't work. Setting out to climb Mount Rainer last weekend doesn't really sound like a good time to me, but I don't know what they actually thought they were doing. Were they hell-bent-for-glory, and planning to march uphill until they reached the summit or soccomed to exposure? Apparently not. Should they have wandered down off the mountain in something near their original sign-out time? Perhaps (I think I could find my way down from Muir Snowfield in a whiteout, but there are plenty of people who have failed to do so and staying put may not have been a bad call). I don't know what they actually told their family members about what to do if they were overdue, do you?

 

Maybe they were irresponsible, and deserving of your scorn, but perhaps their thinking was: let's see what we can do with relatively little gear, in a real mountain environment (not a winter camping workshop on Heather Ridge). It sounds to me as if they may have done fairly well by themselves (I don't know what "mild frostbite" means – could it be what I call frost nip when my fingertips tingle for a few days after a cold-weather climb?) .

 

To feel some compassion for their worried family members is one thing, but to slam them as you have seems a little overboard -- unless you know more about them and the situation than your post reveals.

 

After slamming the climbers, you dismiss the media as vultures. They may be tools of the <pick one> [liberal left] [corporate conspiracy][government][Rupert Murdock's evil empire], but in reporting this story I believe they presented more or less accurate information and that their readers generally wanted that information. Did they really go all that far out of their way to distort anything -- any more than a story about the basement of the Bank of California building filling up with 3 feet of water?

 

Not only do you slam the media, you then go out of your way to personally attack Newstips and King5News. What exactly is it that you find so despicable about them?

[Duchess]

I wonder who your reliable inside sources are, "Government Watch Dog". As we all know, even the most "reliable inside sources" are often also driven by their egos, and therefore don't always give the whole and accurate truth. I don't think that ANYONE HERE has all the information or ever will... secondly, yeah the media can hinder rescue efforts, and occassionally pass on inaccurate information. Although I would like to point out that the media's coverage is usually not as inaccurate as the speculation that occurs on this website in the early stages of any rescue... the media is just a business. the media is not some non-profit organization dedicated to the virtues of empathy and understanding of the mountaineering community, nor has the media ever pretended to be. it's a profit driven , competitive business. they give the people what the people want. you don't need to attack them for being what they are, "Watch Dog." I'm sure you read the newspapers and watch the news like everyone else. i will admit that i am biased, as i grew up in a media household.

finally, i agree with matt. experienced climbers forget things all the time... gloves, compasses, even ropes. no need to actively destroy these two guys reputations.

I don't mean to sound like I am attacking you, your sources, or your opinions. they just sound a little... um... harsh to me.

[Attitude]

Government_Watch_Dog said:

 

6. My post about the media surfing this web site was "deleted" last time I spoke up. I still think the media is a just a bunch of vultures. They really don't care about "us" as climbers, mountaineering as a sport, or accurate reporting; they only want the exciting story first. Facts and relevancy mean little when selling airtime to advertisers. Newstips and King5news probably wear lots of polyester and pluck their eyebrows, beware.

 

 

Hey!

 

My post yesterday on Dru being a little "quick on the draw" also was deleted!

 

I guess this means that Dru also probably wear lots of polyester and plucks his eyebrows.

 

Beware!!!!!!!!

[iain]

perhaps part of the reason people have problems with these news folks is that they only show up here when someone is in trouble. I'm not sure if we will see comments from those two again until there is another incident (but they could prove me wrong right now, and I would be pleasantly surprised). I wouldn't really expect them to be around if they are not interested in climbing, but it does look a little vulture-like when they are only here for the tragedies.

[CascadeClimber]

You suggest utter disdain for "so called" experience climbers who would be so bold as to head up Mount Rainier with only one bivvy sack and no shovel and no beacon, "barely any food and no water." While I have a hard time imagining not taking ANY water (do you know for a fact that this is true??), I can tell you that plenty of folks who post on this board would not think it irresponsible to set out from Paradise without the shovel, beacon, or more than a moderate amount of food, and no bivvy bag.

 

Forgetting that their equipment list is conjecture, I think it is absolutely foolhardy to leave Paradise for Muir in a storm, with more bad weather predicted equipped as described.

 

How many people have to die after getting lost on the Muir Snowfield before this kind of shit stops?

 

I guess if they wanted to experience true suffering, that's fine. But if so, then they should have told people not to expect them back for a week.

 

Grrrrrrrr

 

-L

[Careless_Ev]

Careless Ev thinks the 10 essentials are for sissies.

[iain]

Careless_Ev said:

Careless Ev thinks the 10 essentials are for sissies.

what up caveman

[Duchess]

i only show up here when something interests me/ is relevant to my life. am i a vulture, too?

at any rate, my guess (my hope) is that all four people involved learned important lessons (such as to not head up to muir in the winter in crappy weather with more crappy weather predicted...?) not everyone learns the easy way, and some people just love epics. it's too bad when it involves several dozen rescue personnel, but that is what pays some people's bills.

anyhow, i agree with one thing. totally overblown. all that fuss for frostbitten fingers. oh well.

[mattp]

Cascade Climber:

Without more information, I question your attitude here. I HAVE dug a snow cave with an ice axe before. I often DO NOT carry beacons and shovels for a winter climb. I NEVER carry a bivvy bag (though I usually have a large pack and raincoat, and maybe a garbage bag if the weather is poor). My stove HAS failed before. Did they lack sufficient skill to take care of themselves? Apparently not. Did they tell their family that they should start worrying on Sunday? Probably not.

 

There are lots of idiots who trod upon Mount Rainier ill-prepared and these guys may be among them. I have no problem with trying to draw lessons from their experience, but I don't think a public rant based on little information other than how you think you would have packed is very much of a help.

 

IAIN:

There have periodically been some interesting articles in the Seattle papers that dealt directly with climbing, and included big pictures and stuff, that did not sensationalize as you fear. In the last two years, there have been a couple of stories about the bolting controversies, portraits of big-name and not-so-big-name climbers, and etc. I'm not saying they lack for sensationalism or that they do not serve their corporate masters, but once in a while we DO see some good reporting. Honest.

[Dru]

avalanche "bacon" [sic], mmmm i like bacon

[iain]

mattp I was simply basing the above statement on what I have seen here, not the media as a whole. I did not attack them when they posted, but I can understand the skepticism that several have expressed here about their motives.

 

duchess, do you show up here specifically for details on climbing accidents and nothing else?

[CascadeClimber]

mattp said:

Cascade Climber:

Without more information, I question your attitude here. I HAVE dug a snow cave with an ice axe before. I often DO NOT carry beacons and shovels for a winter climb. I NEVER carry a bivvy bag (though I usually have a large pack and raincoat, and maybe a garbage bag if the weather is poor). My stove HAS failed before. Did they lack sufficient skill to take care of themselves? Apparently not. Did they tell their family that they should start worrying on Sunday? Probably not.

 

There are lots of idiots who trod upon Mount Rainier ill-prepared and these guys may be among them. I have no problem with trying to draw lessons from their experience, but I don't think a public rant based on little information other than how you think you would have packed is very much of a help.

 

IAIN:

There have periodically been some interesting articles in the Seattle papers that dealt directly with climbing, and included big pictures and stuff, that did not sensationalize as you fear. In the last two years, there have been a couple of stories about the bolting controversies, portraits of big-name and not-so-big-name climbers, and etc. I'm not saying they lack for sensationalism or that they do not serve their corporate masters, but once in a while we DO see some good reporting. Honest.

 

Sadly, we aren't climbing in a vacuum anymore: The actions, and perceived actions, of climbers in every publicized incident like this has an affect on each and every climber.

 

I don't care two licks if someone wants to test their suffering endurance, but when you go out in a manner that is perceived as improperly equipped and get screwed up (in any way that is publicized), you are selfishly impacting others.

 

You don't need to go scrogging up the Muir Snowfield in mid winter in Tevas and hemp shorts to see if you can take it- just go sit behind the Paradise lodge for the day.

 

They got frostbite and they were overdue and it sounds like they weren't properly equipped, by usual standards for winter mountaineering in the Cascades. That's a screw-up in my book, presuming that it turns out to be true.

 

Opinions are like assholes: Everyone has one, and everyone thinks theirs is the only one that doesn't stink.

 

-L

[king5news]

(iain) so much for your thoughts that we're only here when something bad happens.

as a matter of fact I check in at least once or twice a day and look forward some tuesday to "pub-ing" with you all so you can see that we're not all bad people and we actually enjoy life and its pursuit!!

 

 

Edited February 20, 2003 by king5news

[Necronomicon]

king5news said:

(iain) so much for your thoughts that we're only here when something bad happens.

as a matter of fact I check in at least once or twice a day and look forward some tuesday to "pub-ing" with you all so you can see that we're not all bad people and we actually enjoy life and its pursuit!!

 

 

Yay.

 

After unsuccessfully looking for a dead snowboarder buried up at Baker for a whole day, I had the pleasure, in the parking lot, of having a camera stuck in my face. Sees as KING5 et al were in the parking lot to report on the great weather and skiing conditions and just happened to be there during the search. When the anorexic "blonde" with the pancake make-up asked me if I could point her in the direction of any family members of the then still unlocated deceased individual, I lost it proceeded to tear into her for a good fifteen minutes.

 

You "News Reporters" are nothing but vultures, as far as I'm concerned. In addition to picking carrion, you aslo serve the public by culturing fear and ignorance, spreading misery, and exploiting human suffering to make money through your sponsors. Whenever I see your vans in my town, with your aspirations of "going national", I am always correct in assuming that something bad is happening, and you don't say a thing around here until someone goes missing or gets killed, as far as I can tell.

 

By the way, I'm sure you're a nice guy, but do yourself a favor and find a more respectable line of work, one where you can use your talents to help people, rather than expolit them. And tell your bosses to fuck off for me, if you could. I think they suck.

 

[iain]

king5news said:

(iain) so much for your thoughts that we're only here when something bad happens.

as a matter of fact I check in at least once or twice a day and look forward some tuesday to "pub-ing" with you all so you can see that we're not all bad people and we actually enjoy life and its pursuit!!

 

well that's good to see, as I said above. your approach to this incident was much better than the previous avalanche fatalities. I suppose as someone who has been rescued before and having been through the process of being misquoted and edited down to say something I didn't say, I am cautious towards those who represent the media.