sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Greg- I repeat my question: when was the last time that a peace march ended up in some kind of violence? And when was the time before that? (I mean in this country.) It might be fair to say that you are concerned that such an event could turn violent, but I think it is completely inaccurate to say that these things usually end up that way. Four dead in Ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Want to clog the streets? Fine, but don't be surprised when you get arrested. Want to arrest 10,000 pissed off marchers? Fine, but don't be surprised if you've got a riot on your hands. Civil disobedience has a long and distinguished history. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground? How can you run when you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 But Greg- You still fail to cite any instances of violence since 1968 except, as Cavey already noted, there was some property damage during WTO. I am sure that there probably have been at least one or two other instances of violence following a protest, but to suggest that violence is commonly associated with peace marches, or even political rallies in general, is flatly untrue. It would be a lot more accurate to say that violence is associated with college football games (probably every year there is a "riot" follwing a game somewhere in the U.S.). Are you involved with GW's propaganda machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Greg- I repeat my question: when was the last time that a peace march ended up in some kind of violence? And when was the time before that? (I mean in this country.) It might be fair to say that you are concerned that such an event could turn violent, but I think it is completely inaccurate to say that these things usually end up that way. Four dead in Ohio Yeah, four students dead. Maybe they should have just shot Rosa Parks to set the precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Doesn't anyone else around here feel LESS SECURE at home based on Bush's stunts with Iraq? I wouldn't necessarily say I feel secure, but I'm losing NO sleep over the possibilities. If some nut with a towel on his head wants to fuck around with me, I'll immediately ruin his day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek_the_Greek Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 I'll be there. Not really into protests, but this issue I feel strongly about. For others who might come, make sure to dress respectably, because if it looks like a circus it will be a circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 It would be a lot more accurate to say that violence is associated with college football games (probably every year there is a "riot" follwing a game somewhere in the U.S.). Not true. Riots in Chicago after the NBA victory in '96, riots in LA after the Lakers won. Rodney King verdict? Watts riots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Greg- I repeat my question: when was the last time that a peace march ended up in some kind of violence? And when was the time before that? (I mean in this country.) It might be fair to say that you are concerned that such an event could turn violent, but I think it is completely inaccurate to say that these things usually end up that way. Four dead in Ohio Yeah, four students dead. Maybe they should have just shot Rosa Parks to set the precedent. I think you miss my point. It is as much the cops as the protesters that cause the issue. I am not saying that people should not protest. Just that because of the selfish self ritghous nature of people in general,a rally of any kind is rarely a pleasant family day. I would not take my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 So Greg- Let me get this straight: these things are evidence in support of the idea that peace marches usually turn violent? Riots in Chicago after the NBA victory in '96, riots in LA after the Lakers won. Rodney King verdict? Watts riots? Stick with the topic at hand: this discussion is about Saturday's peace march. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 It would be a lot more accurate to say that violence is associated with college football games (probably every year there is a "riot" follwing a game somewhere in the U.S.). Not true. Riots in Chicago after the NBA victory in '96, riots in LA after the Lakers won. Rodney King verdict? Watts riots? Oakland after the raiders lost the super bowl THIS YEAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Oakland after the raiders lost the super bowl THIS YEAR and this has anything to do with peace demonstrations? I don't follow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Muffy, I don't have kids but I have been to a lot of peace demonstrations. Since the Vietnam war era, I don't believe a single person has been arrested, nor has there been any violence, at any of the events I have attended (I didn't go to WTO). If you believe that war is a bad idea, the speeches are usually inspiring and in my experience these events have mostly been very enjoyable. I wouldn't hesitate to bring my kids, if I had any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Jocks and their sycophantic worshipers are violent meatheads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Oakland after the raiders lost the super bowl THIS YEAR and this has anything to do with peace demonstrations? I don't follow... I guess I am more refering to the spycology of the MOB MENTALITY. I think this is a valid part of the discusssion. People in Emotionaly Charged situations do RASH and STUPID things. There are Just as many stupis wanna be hippies as there are stupid NFL fans. As I said before, I am not against peoiple gathering. They should. But just don't expect it to be all nice nice. It might be, but I would not risk my life pr the lives of my children to be there. Not after the number of Riots I have seen in Eugene in the past 10 years. I can go into detail about the tree cutting incodent if you want me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Muffy- Did any of these "riots" follow from a peace march or antiwar demonstration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Muffy- Did any of these "riots" follow from a peace march or antiwar demonstration? RIOTS FOLLOWED A PEACEFUL DEMESTRATION ABOUT THE CUTTING OF A STUPID TREE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 IN DOWN TOWN... we are not talking an old growth forest here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 That's what I thought you were referring to, Muffy. But don't confuse a peace march with an environmental protest or political rally that is attended largely by ardent fanatics. In Seattle, Saturday's peace march will be attended by a wide spectrum of people and I bet, for instance, that most Seattle churches will have part of their congregation represented there. I don't know the "agenda" but I bet Congressional representatives and other dignitaries will be giving speeches. Lots of people will be there with their kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 That's what I thought you were referring to, Muffy. But don't confuse a peace march with an environmental protest or political rally that is attended largely by ardent fanatics. In Seattle, Saturday's peace march will be attended by a wide spectrum of people and I bet, for instance, that most Seattle churches will have part of their congregation represented there. I don't know the "agenda" but I bet Congressional representatives and other dignitaries will be giving speeches. Lots of people will be there with their kids. Yeah, lots of people in BMW's and Volvos who don't give a shit about the oppressive regime that Saddam inflicts on the people of Iraq. Who's the heartless group now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 and I sincearly hope that it is peaceful wonderful experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 So Greg - Have you given up arguing that peace marches usually turn violent? Are you now arguing that for someone to oppose a war that will kill lots of Iraqi's and destroy large parts of the country shows that they obviously don't care about the Iraqi people? Why don't you try an argument that you might actually win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 That's what I thought you were referring to, Muffy. But don't confuse a peace march with an environmental protest or political rally that is attended largely by ardent fanatics. In Seattle, Saturday's peace march will be attended by a wide spectrum of people and I bet, for instance, that most Seattle churches will have part of their congregation represented there. I don't know the "agenda" but I bet Congressional representatives and other dignitaries will be giving speeches. Lots of people will be there with their kids. Yeah, lots of people in BMW's and Volvos who don't give a shit about the oppressive regime that Saddam inflicts on the people of Iraq. Who's the heartless group now? If they didn't care or have an opinion, why would they be there? People can give a shit, they just don't necessarily have to shit like you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 so is peace at any cost, realy peace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 That's what I thought you were referring to, Muffy. But don't confuse a peace march with an environmental protest or political rally that is attended largely by ardent fanatics. In Seattle, Saturday's peace march will be attended by a wide spectrum of people and I bet, for instance, that most Seattle churches will have part of their congregation represented there. I don't know the "agenda" but I bet Congressional representatives and other dignitaries will be giving speeches. Lots of people will be there with their kids. Yeah, lots of people in BMW's and Volvos who don't give a shit about the oppressive regime that Saddam inflicts on the people of Iraq. Who's the heartless group now? If they didn't care or have an opinion, why would they be there? People can give a shit, they just don't necessarily have to shit like you do. jason - "Peace" will ensure that Saddam's repressive regime stays in power. Thus, there will be no relief for those living under his yoke. Mattp - I guess I have. I had in my mind, protests and marches in general. I am sure "Peace" will work as good as it did in 1938. I can't wait for some nudnik to claim that "Peace in our time" is what we need; it didn't work when Neville Chamberlain tried it and it won't work now. Don't people learn anything from history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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