[TR] Mt. Hood - Yocum Ridge Solo 03/21/2020

[JasonG]

3 hours ago, nonbasketless said:

Please refute me without hate, but I wonder if this actually happened. Thoughts, comments? If it did (and I hope it did), from one soloist (though I'm not nearly as objectively badass) to another, hats off!

Why does it matter so much to you?  This isn't the AAJ, and a post like yours does nothing except stir the pot.... to what end? 

[DPS]

4 hours ago, nonbasketless said:

Please refute me without hate, but I wonder if this actually happened. Thoughts, comments? If it did (and I hope it did), from one soloist (though I'm not nearly as objectively badass) to another, hats off!

This reminds me of when crazypolishbob/glassgowkiss refuted Colin Haley and Mark Bunker's winter ascent of the Upper NR Stuart because he was there and did not see any tracks. There was another fellow who refuted Colin's report of soloing the NF Robson in a day and a half. 

I certainly believe lando's claim. Having had my own go around with the Yocum Ridge I can say with some authority that it is not technically difficult, just really scary and dangerous. I'm sure  lando is perfectly capable of climbing the rig. Why would someone lie about climbing a route that maybe 10 other people in the world care about anyway? 

I feel that in this game you really have nothing to gain by making false claims, especially a route on Mt. Hood. 

[JBo6]

Congrats nonbasketless on the dumbest post of COVID-19.  May no one surpass it.

[landoclimb]

6 hours ago, nonbasketless said:

You've done some amazing things, landoclimb, I loved and shared your last two trip reports.

But I have something on my mind I want to run by you. I'm worried about coming across as a horrible person, but I'm not good at keeping these things to myself. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I attempted Leuthold's the day after you, and turned around at the hourglass. There was a ridiculous amount of ice coming down. Two days before, others attempted it and had extremely good conditions (see PNW Mountaineers on Fecesbook). I've never seen so much weird, cantilevered ice on the mountain, trickling down at all hours (especially night). The ice is in rapid flux.

That makes me doubt the bollards would've been usable after 9 days of intense freeze thaw with a storm thrown in.

Further, maybe I didn't look carefully enough, but I did look around and did not notice the tracks you would've left crossing Reid the day before. All discernable tracks went uphill, and I erred toward North to avoid falling stuff. Unless they were erased I would've seen your tracks.

Further further, what elementary school has a decent view of Yokum ridge, such that you'd identify a line and want to follow it?

Bummer about the phone. I wish we had pics.

I'm also surprised you didn't mention the wind. It was an extremely windy night/morning, apparently. One climber I talked to on my lovely slog up on Saturday (I spent the night on the saddle) said he dug a shelter out of fear, though to be fair nobody else did.

 

Please refute me without hate, but I wonder if this actually happened. Thoughts, comments? If it did (and I hope it did), from one soloist (though I'm not nearly as objectively badass) to another, hats off!

There was a good bit of wind that morning on the approach but it stopped when I got to the saddle. I didn't find a breeze on the approach to be significant compared to the rest of my day out. Going down Leuthold I didn't experience any significant icefall. Both of the bollards were solid and I thoroughly inspected them beforehand. I brought a picket and some bags to make deadmans if the bollards were shit. My tracks going to Yocum were there, along with a bunch of other parties. I went to an elementary school in Gresham with a great view of Hood. I have some sick tan lines and a new iPhone if you doubt those too. If you want more details you can message me. I don't lie about my climbs and am as open as I can be. The sunrise that morning was beautiful!

[landoclimb]

2 hours ago, JBo6 said:

Congrats nonbasketless on the dumbest post of COVID-19.  May no one surpass it.

What better to do in quarantine then argue on the internet?

Edited March 29, 2020 by landoclimb

[JasonG]

1 hour ago, landoclimb said:

What better to do in quarantine then argue on the internet?

Probably go outside.  But this is a close second.  Certainly better than working!

[Rad]

We will take you at your word unless your last name is Cesen or Cesare.

 

 

[nonbasketless]

15 hours ago, JBo6 said:

Congrats nonbasketless on the dumbest post of COVID-19.  May no one surpass it.

Thanks for putting it that way! I can blame cabin fever.

13 hours ago, landoclimb said:

There was a good bit of wind that morning on the approach but it stopped when I got to the saddle. I didn't find a breeze on the approach to be significant compared to the rest of my day out. Going down Leuthold I didn't experience any significant icefall. Both of the bollards were solid and I thoroughly inspected them beforehand. I brought a picket and some bags to make deadmans if the bollards were shit. My tracks going to Yocum were there, along with a bunch of other parties. I went to an elementary school in Gresham with a great view of Hood. I have some sick tan lines and a new iPhone if you doubt those too. If you want more details you can message me. I don't lie about my climbs and am as open as I can be. The sunrise that morning was beautiful!

I'm sorry dude. You have some serious integrity there. I feel like an ass. Keep inspiring me.

[landoclimb]

1 hour ago, nonbasketless said:

Thanks for putting it that way! I can blame cabin fever.

I'm sorry dude. You have some serious integrity there. I feel like an ass. Keep inspiring me.

You're good man

[Rad]

But wait, where's the venom and vitriol? This site used to be the place where armchair quarterbacks cast judgment and aspersion from their many anonymous avatars. I guess that sort of thing moved to Twitter. So thankful I'm not over there...

[JasonG]

23 minutes ago, Rad said:

But wait, where's the venom and vitriol?

We've all got low-T now.  My wife says that's OK.

[landoclimb]

3 hours ago, Rad said:

But wait, where's the venom and vitriol? This site used to be the place where armchair quarterbacks cast judgment and aspersion from their many anonymous avatars. I guess that sort of thing moved to Twitter. So thankful I'm not over there...

Too much hate in this world. As the Circle Jerks said, "Put a little love in your heart".

[Rad]

4 hours ago, JasonG said:

We've all got low-T now.  My wife says that's OK.

The ads on ESPN radio would suggest your wife wants you to do something about it.

 

[Artem Vasilyev]

On 3/26/2020 at 1:55 PM, ktarry said:

Artem, you've climbed one easy route on Hood, and yet you're arguing that soloing Yocum might be safer than climbing it with a partner.  This is exactly the culture of risk that I'm worried about.  Please be careful out there and stay safe.

I hope that this wasn't your actual takeaway from my post. Please don't build strawmen.

I was pointing out the fact that we cannot say with certainty how safe any particular ascent was or is. Risk is difficult to quantify from a computer chair. We can only guess. I did acknowledge that you had climbed the route, so your opinion holds some weight. 

I was certainly not making any comments on how a route should be climbed. It is clear that with all else held equal, solo climbing is inherently more risky. That being said, the gear on Yocum is bad and falls while alpine climbing commonly result in fatal outcomes. So the moral question is: Should we not also publicly criticize people for climbing the Yocum in the first place? 

My answer is probably not.

But each person has their own reaction to things like this, so I respect your perspective. Let's rope up someday and put whatever assumptions we have of each other to rest that way. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Artem Vasilyev

[DPS]

Perhaps this is tangent to the thread, but Yocum Ridge was short listed (top 100) for 50 Classic Climbs in NA. 

[mthorman]

1 hour ago, DPS said:

Perhaps this is tangent to the thread, but Yocum Ridge was short listed (top 100) for 50 Classic Climbs in NA. 

Interesting.....I bet that if it had made the list it would be climbed a LOT more!

[ktarry]

8 hours ago, Artem Vasilyev said:

 So the moral question is: Should we not also publicly criticize people for climbing the Yocum in the first place? 

My answer is probably not.

I had several close friends express concern about choice of objective when I climbed it, and one potential partner opted out because he felt the hazard was too high.  I think that feedback on risk is really valuable, and important to get from outside sources, because our own ability to assess risk is screwed up by all kinds of built-in biases.  They talk about this regularly in avalanche education ("heuristic traps"), but for some reason it's much less discussed with regard to climbing (too much history of punk rock and macho attitudes, maybe).

Here's some info from the avy side of things: http://www.sunrockice.com/docs/Heuristic traps IM 2004.pdf

[Atom]

On 3/31/2020 at 7:47 AM, Artem Vasilyev said:

I hope that this wasn't your actual takeaway from my post. Please don't build strawmen.

I was pointing out the fact that we cannot say with certainty how safe any particular ascent was or is. Risk is difficult to quantify from a computer chair. We can only guess. I did acknowledge that you had climbed the route, so your opinion holds some weight. 

I was certainly not making any comments on how a route should be climbed. It is clear that with all else held equal, solo climbing is inherently more risky. That being said, the gear on Yocum is bad and falls while alpine climbing commonly result in fatal outcomes. So the moral question is: Should we not also publicly criticize people for climbing the Yocum in the first place? 

My answer is probably not.

But each person has their own reaction to things like this, so I respect your perspective. Let's rope up someday and put whatever assumptions we have of each other to rest that way. 

 

I wasn't going to jump in but I just wanted to say that I didn't interpret your (@Artem Vasilyev) original post as an arguement that soloing Yocum is safer than with a partner. I thought your comments were intriguing and thoughtful. So, thank you!

Overall this whole thread has been a quite enjoyable read especially being cooped up due to the current state of the world. 

For me this whole conversation around soloing really just me think about why I love climbing. And that is because no matter who you are, what your skill level is or your experience has been YOU get to choose how you experience the mountains. You can go drink beer on a crash pad with your friends and climb little rocks, you can go project some hard sport route you've been training your ass off for or you can go on some big mountain suffer-fest that makes you wonder why you do this. You get to choose how much risk you want to take (although, sometimes you don't) and nobody is sitting there telling you that you can't or that's too dangerous or that you are making a foolish decision. @landoclimb's comment on our sanitized world really resonates with me and in part that is why I enjoy the mountains - there aren't guard rails, there aren't caution signs or anybody holding your hand. It's wonderful how you can go take as much or as little risk as you want. And even that is relative and subjective. Some of my fondest memories have been coming back to "reality" after some climbing objective and seeing how strange and sanitized the world we live in is. 

Also, congratulations on your ascent @landoclimband thank you for sharing. It sounded like a wonderful day out but I do hope you also share a rope sometimes. 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Atom

[billcoe]

 

 

Badass ascent, and the writing is very well done as well. Good job all around. 

 

Quote

"I don't think pointing to Marc-Andre is a very convincing argument either"

 Damn, cut me right off. Was going to mention that I remember when Marc-Andre was a dumb young (was he 14 when he  first posted here) hugely overenthusiastic snotnose kid showing up on this very site annoying all of the old fucks here. Then bam, world class. Seen it a couple times. No way I'm gonna discourage a young person, what the hell do I know. Seriously, good job getting out and getting it done!