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jon

Grizzlies in the North Cascades?

Are you for grizzlies being reintroduced?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you for grizzlies being reintroduced?

    • Yes
      19
    • Nope
      15


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Posted (edited)

Zinke is a tool of the highest order but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'm all for restoring Grizz to any of their native range that is reasonable. The amount of apes taking up space in prime habitat is a bit problematic though. Maybe I'll get the chance to hunt Grizz before my days are up!

 

"Cattlemen were incensed, stating they have already faced too much carnage from the return of the wolf to Washington" :lmao:

Edited by KirkW
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one apex predator to another, the grizzly bear can kiss my ass :)

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Posted (edited)

I wish I still aid climbed Ivan. Despite the fact that I've given up the habit, I'd love to share a camel at a belay station with you again. Long live the Grizz :) 

Edited by KirkW

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12 hours ago, KirkW said:

Zinke is a tool of the highest order but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'm all for restoring Grizz to any of their native range that is reasonable. 

Ditto.

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Posted (edited)

I think what's reasonable is to establish policies that protect them and their habitat and then let them self-restore on their own, or not. Who knows better than grizzlies what habitat is suitable for them. Seems more natural than shocking an ecosystem with a man-made abrupt fix. I would love to see grizzlies in the NC, but ones that peaceably wandered in and settled down on their own, not ones that were yanked out of their home and dropped into a new and strange and unfamiliar land. We just need to respect and protect the land and then otherwise leave it alone so it can return to its natural state. It's a bit presumptuous for us to assume we know what that is. 

Edited by pcg

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22 hours ago, KirkW said:

I wish I still aid climbed Ivan. Despite the fact that I've given up the habit, I'd love to share a camel at a belay station with you again. Long live the Grizz :) 

it's tough, but i can still free climb sans smokes, should you be in the state of warshington...

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, pcg said:

I think what's reasonable is to establish policies that protect them and their habitat and then let them self-restore on their own, or not. Who knows better than grizzlies what habitat is suitable for them. Seems more natural than shocking an ecosystem with a man-made abrupt fix. I would love to see grizzlies in the NC, but ones that peaceably wandered in and settled down on their own, not ones that were yanked out of their home and dropped into a new and strange and unfamiliar land. We just need to respect and protect the land and then otherwise leave it alone so it can return to its natural state. It's a bit presumptuous for us to assume we know what that is. 

While I completely agree with the sentiment that it would be great to just let these populations rebound or spread "naturally" the reality is that this will never happen without human intervention. The historical travel corridors that connect currently suitable habitat are gone and will not be returning unless we removed humans from the landscape.  It's all about the habitat and the ability of animals to move freely within it. I agree that we need to put more focus on respecting and protecting the land but unless we're going to rip out all the dams, tear up our highways, cease land development and stop putting out forest fires and controlling other "natural" but devastating events,  there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that Grizz will repopulate on their own. If people want them back in the N Cascades we're going to have to put them there.  We can't manage some parts of the system and then expect the others to function "naturally". I don't think this is at all presumptuous. Rather, It's the reality that having nearly 8 billion people on the planet brings us to.  

Edit to add : Although not directly related to the issue at hand... Radiolab did an excellent series of podcasts focused on the Galapagos islands and the efforts to "save" the tortoises on Pinta island.  Anyone  interested in wildlife reintroduction issues might find them interesting and thought provoking.  "Resurrection" delves into the issue the most. http://www.radiolab.org/story/galapagos/

Edited by KirkW

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How much is reintroduction going to cost?  I would rather the money be spent on trail and road maintenance to keep people spread out in the hills, not concentrated where the access is the best.   And while you're at it, take the NPS money spent on killing fish in alpine lakes and put that towards road and trail maintenance too. 

I'm in the minority based on the poll, but that is true on pretty much everything in life.  :battlecage:

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Since there's already grizzlies on the BC side of the Cascades how are you gonna stop them from reintroducing themselves? New wall? Armed drones? Rangers demanding park passes? Geez.

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I was trying to find a picture of a grizzly bear with a passport when I came across this, thought, huh, too odd not to share...   

grizzly.jpg

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53 minutes ago, G-spotter said:

Since there's already grizzlies on the BC side of the Cascades how are you gonna stop them from reintroducing themselves?

I've often wondered if the habitat is suitable why the haven't shown up on their own.  I know the pat answer is that the migration corridors are fragmented and prevent movement. 

But I don't buy it. 

I was driving the trans Canada last spring and "King" was walking the RR tracks right next to the road near Kicking Horse Pass.  He's so frequently seen munching on train-kill that he has a name.  Grizz also aren't afraid of people, unfortunately.  I know this first hand from working around them in AK for years.

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Grizzlies were only reintroduced into the Skagit Range and Hozomeen Range in BC about 10 years ago, so I'd suggest the main reason is time. They are slowly working their way south.

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Ah....I thought they had never been totally extirpated in that area up there, or maybe a bit east of there.  Makes sense that it would take more time.

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Have you guys actually read the EIS? There's going to be around 800 helo sorties to get them in and more flights to monitor. So much for a wilderness experience ..  Look at what gets shut down in Yellowstone every summer to prevent human grizzly interactions. So much for access... 28 million bucks to not even expand the range of grizzlybears in North America by half of one percent.  This is environmentalism run amuck.

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I haven't read it, but I will try and track it down now.  $28 million could clear a lot of trail miles for a very long time.

I have a retired NOCA NPS botanist in my neighborhood and it's crazy the places they flew in and the frequency of flights over the years.  To them it was fun work..... to me, a giant waste of money.  And don't even get me started on flying barrels of Rotenone up to lakes to kill off the trout.

Sorry for the drift....back to grizz!

 

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I guess it's related thread drift, but I'd be interested in reading more about this trout killing deal, is it because they're planted non-natives? Is there some ecosystem disruption? Not enough mosquitoes?

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4 hours ago, Eric T said:

Have you guys actually read the EIS? There's going to be around 800 helo sorties to get them in and more flights to monitor. So much for a wilderness experience ..  Look at what gets shut down in Yellowstone every summer to prevent human grizzly interactions. So much for access... 28 million bucks to not even expand the range of grizzlybears in North America by half of one percent.  This is environmentalism run amuck.

Do you have a link to the EIS? All Google is finding for me is dead links.

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I have a copy of the EIS at home but won't be back for a week. They may be tweeking it, idk. 

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16 minutes ago, Off_White said:

I guess it's related thread drift, but I'd be interested in reading more about this trout killing deal, is it because they're planted non-natives? Is there some ecosystem disruption? Not enough mosquitoes?

Trout are voracious predators that disrupted the ecosystem of mountain lakes. It'd be like adding polar bears to pre-schools, but more gory. Hey, do you suppose we could arm those polar bears with AR-15s?

Seriously, though, here's an article on trout in mountain lakes.

NYTimes on trout in lakes

 

 

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i hate mozzies more than grizzlies, if this helps the conversation :)

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