Matt Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Be sure to 9 mm ropes or smaller when belaying two with a reverso. With larger diameter ropes it will be unwieldy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Erik showed me the way of the reverso. I've been saving up for a second Edelweiss ever since. Too bad I've wasted so much cash on cheerios and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 If it works out that you are not low enough to belay directly off the achor just belay off the belay loop but still use it in autoblock mode. works great and acts just like an atc type belay. Actually I'm surprised this has not been mentioned yet! dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Hans Florine / Bill Wright review this subject in their book "Skills for More Efficient Climbing". Some of the basic techniques are touched on above, like the catapillar method, but if you want more detail, I recomend the reading the book. Truly efficient three person climbing can be faster than all but the boldest 2 person team methods. With short fixing and one follower getting to the anchor fast and not worrying about cleaning the entire pitch periods of non up-ward movement can be eliminated. But, I'm certainly not an expert on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapertimmy Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Erik showed me the way of the reverso. I've been saving up for a second Edelweiss ever since. Too bad I've wasted so much cash on cheerios and stuff. leather cherrios? i think climbing with three is fun, as long as there isn't a party of mazamas on the route ain't dat right cletus,brock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Timmy- I'd say that if there is a party of Mazama's on the route, a party of three is even more important. Thay way you have more help to trundle boulders and there is somebody to joke around with while you are waiting for the "gapers" to get out of your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 If it works out that you are not low enough to belay directly off the achor just belay off the belay loop but still use it in autoblock mode. works great and acts just like an atc type belay. Actually I'm surprised this has not been mentioned yet! dale The completely obvious was not mentioned because that is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-rock Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Yeah Tim. Of course their method of climbing with a party of nine was pretty interesting stuff too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamaker Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I personaly like two methods. When guiding orotherwise on low angle, I use one 60m rope w/ climber 2 tied in at about 50m, and climber 3 tied in at 60m. For higher angle stuff use a single and a twin. Leader leads on the single, 2nd trails the twin, 3rd uses (ascenders) to ascend. Traverses get more intersting. W/ 3, it is realy handy to have everyone w/ their own daisy chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Having one climber directly below an other & both climbing , is not a good idea when on ice or loose/alpine rock. At least, its not a good idea for the lowest climber unless they are a masochist or have nothing in their head which could be damaged by falling objects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Having climbed as a "client" for a friend who was training for his ACMG cert, I have this option to offer. Lead with two 10mm ropes. Use one as your belayed rope, clip other in to protect client where neccesary. Carry 2! Gri-Gri! Easy to lower 2nd, if neccesary, and helps prevent elbow tendonitis from pulling so much rope through plaquette or such rig. I kid you not, this is how some of them do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 You make a good point, Dru, though I would suggest that it is all a matter of judgment. Party initiated rockfall is a serious hazard, and dealing with it is an art not a science. There are lots of semi-technical situations where I might do as JH suggests even if it were fairly high-angle, others where completely separate belays are warranted, and there are some situations where I will dispense with the rope all together, even though the terrain is such that a fall could be dangererous, because it is sweeping too much rope onto the following climbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 jhamaker both your systems are for free climbing??? they are kinda slow and outdated. certainly for some super alpine route the 2nd method works. but not really. how is it faster. does the follower clean the pitch or the jugger? would have to be the follower. but then leader still has to belay the follower, and then the jugger just sits around does nothing...maybe rope management or eating or something..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 I brought this back up because I finally tried climbing with doubles and three climbers, although I used an ATC rather than a Reverso. There's a lot to like about it; one follower cleans all the gear his rope is clipped into, while the other follower cleans his own gear. We were probably quite a bit slower than a party of two because of inexperience with the sytem. We weren't comfortable having both followers climb simultaneously on every pitch, but we did do that on all but two or three hardest ones. If two of the three climbers are willing to simul rap, three can get down as fast or faster than a party of two, because more hands to pull and coil rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 the atc is not recommended because you really need 3 hands to work it when belaying 2 at once. danger danger sketchbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 An ATC works with two followers only if the two followers are climbing at the same rate. What do you need to pull slack out of just one of the ropes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erden Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 3 hands were suggested to use an ATC - I have used this many times before Reverso's became the rage. One may have to use it again in case fast progress is required and the Reverso happens to have taken a dive down the cliffside. Run index finger b/n the ropes - pinch one that you want to pull, let the other one slide in the grip. Easy to do, just as safe, worked for me, even caught falls with it. Try at your own risk... Erden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I used to do what erden explained, but the Reverso or a Gigi is way easier and much safer, it not like they are that expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 or a B52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Agreed, since I got Reverso I stopped using a Pyramid and now need only 2 hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Twight said three was the perfect number for his 60-hour Polish Direct epic: one to climb, one to belay, and one to sleep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvs Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Three of us climbed McTech Arete in the Bugs, 6 pitches with plenty of sustained 5.8-5.9. I think we were just as fast as a strong party of 2. The Reverso was key, and followers always climbed together, about 15 feet apart. Two climbers simul-rapped on the way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Is there a consensus that 1 rope is better than 2 for a party of 3? I've often taken friends out and climbed as 3. Have developed a system that works but probably could use improvment. I've usually used 2 ropes and belayed both followers at the same time on easier pitches or separately on harder ones where a follower has a high chance of falling/hanging. Sometimes rope drag while belaying can be a real b#$%# and more of a workout than leading. Also, there's a lot of spaghetti to flake and manage at the belays (keep out of cracks, bushes). 1 rope would solve both of those issues. However, 2 ropes means longer raps, faster descents, and a greater margin of perceived safety. Should I convert to 1 rope next time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 The Reverso would have been much better. On this particular climb, having two ropes cut down on rope drag a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman_Clyde Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 (edited) Not to betray extreme ignorance, but how does a reverso allow you to take in 2 ropes at different rates, using only 2 hands? All right, I just re-read the original thread and I think I get the idea: one rope in standard mode, one in autoblock mode. Reverso allows this, yes? Edited September 8, 2004 by Norman_Clyde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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