Report from San Francisco

[allthumbs]

I was in SF recently and I couldn't help but notice that the San Francisco & Berkeley anti-war machine has kicked into high gear. It's turning into an old-time revival for the ex-Hippies and their progeny. These are mostly people that would denounce a war against the likes of Hitler, or Genghis Kahn. You could fly a airplane into one of their anti-war rallies, and the survivors would still oppose war. Not a lot of critical thinking going on here, just a good excuse to expose & indoctrinate the next generation of college students to the counterculture ways and techniques, and smoke a lot of dope.

 

...like I said, just a quick observation - not trying to stir the same old pot.

[chucK]

NO IRAQ WAR !!!

[minx]

sure trask, there's no thought that goes into any anti-war opinion. none at all. no one that disagrees w/you could possibly have a logical thought in their head.

[ChrisT]

my sister attended an anti-war rally in SF a couple of weeks ago and said it was a blast. Free live music, lots of freaks (but not nearly as many naked people as the Bay to Breakers). About 350K showed up.

[allthumbs]

sure trask, there's no thought that goes into any anti-war opinion. none at all. no one that disagrees w/you could possibly have a logical thought in their head.

 

minx, you like me don't ya

[mattp]

Trask-

I may agree with you that there are a lot of naive people in this world and you may find your share of them at a peace rally, but the people who most lack critical thought on the war issue these days are those who eat up GW's lies without asking questions and brand anyone who is against the war as a traitor. I don't believe you fall into that category, but way too many people do.

[minx]

trask- shush up and go clean your gun or something. you and gregw are cut from the same cloth. grrrr. Mattp is right. Lots of people believe that war w/Iraq is wrong at this point. Not all of us are uninformed. I could be swayed but the circumstances don't mandate a war at this point in my opinion.

[allthumbs]

Jeez guys, it was merely an observation. Chill

[AlpineK]

Hey Trask I bet you can't wait till tomorrow when GW tells you what your for and what your against.

 

This goes for Fairweather and GregW too.

 

[allthumbs]

I'll follow my leader to hell and back. Heil

[max]

I think it's worth pointing out that there who believe hurting another is wrong no matter what! The monks in tibet are at a serious disadvatage/moral dilema in that no matter what force the chinese use(d) to occupy tibet, the monks can only retaliate w/ non-violent methods.

[allthumbs]

those monks are fukin' stupid

i got no sympathy for pacifism

[sk]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the monks in China develped Judo and the like

[max]

1. I suspect they're not looking for your sympathy. Support, maybe, but sympathy, I doubt.

 

2. Non-violence is a fundamental part of Buhdism. Maybe differnt monks in china?

 

[Dwayner]

I bet for some students, this war business is a dream-come-true. Their ex-yippie/hippie professors have been telling them what a Golden Age the '60's were. They got to wear cool clothes, sit in the street in chant, and gee whiz!, the music was really good.

 

I recall back during the Gulf War when a bunch of neo-hippie protestors wanna-be's, no doubt fresh from viewing some newsclips from their professor's 20th century history class, sat down and chanted "hell, no, we won't go". That anti-draft chant sounded good back in '60's, BUT IT DON'T CUT IT WHEN THERE'S NO DRAFT.

 

And then there's the tired formula....Hey,Hey....Ho, Ho....FILL IN THE BLANK...gotta go, or alternately,

"we don't want your oil/racist war" which is beyond naive.

 

I saw one pathetic young Miss just the other day on the U.W. campus around lunch time. She looked to be about 20 and was trying to get something started in big square between the libraries. She got on the mike and said, "O.K. you guys, I'm going to read something now. O.K. listen to this: "War....what is it good for? Absolutely nothing." So now this is how it's going to work: I'm going to say, "War, what is it good for" and you guys say, "Absolutely nothing". Are you ready? Got it? Say "Absolutely nothin" after I say "War, what is it good for" OK, let's go. "War. What is it good for?" A handful of people said "nothing". "Come on you guys!", pleaded the little protester! "Let's try it again!"

I kept walking.

[j_b]

from the sound of the polls there must lots of hippies around ...

Anyhow this the same tired bullshit about how anyone who disagree with warmongers must be a "stupid hippie". Do you care to actually substantiate your arguments?

 

you can ridicule war opponents as much as you want but personally I find it significant that nothing, including the death of hundreds of thousands of people over the past decade, will make you pause and ponder motives.

 

I kept walking.

 

have you signed up yet?

[Greg_W]

This goes for ... GregW too.

 

 

Kurt, I'm hurt. I thought we had a friendly understanding, man. I don't completely love GW, but I like him better than the other guy.

[AlpineK]

Ok picking on hippies is easy. I'm liberal in my political leanings, but I hate hippies. I mean all that Greatfull Dead and that stinky fucking oil they wear, etc...

 

However, they are on the right side now. A REAL American wants to see some proof of all this bad ass shit Saddam has. I don't want to see all of our information, but I want to see some of it.

 

What I really want to see is the president pay more attention to our economy.

 

[Fairweather]

Dwayner,

 

Great post! I'm personally undecided on the merits of the Iraq war position our govt is taking (though recently leaning toward a pro-administration stance), but it is encouraging to know that someone on "the inside" of the university scene sees things objectively re: the neo "anti-war" movement.

[E-rock]

LMAO

 

"Objectively" blah blah blah blah

 

I hardly see how snobbish judgements of people's attire and lifestyle can be anything other than a SUBJECTIVE interpretation. I'm guilty of them as well, but I wouldn't claim that they were "objective" "observations".

Edited January 28, 2003 by E-rock

[JayB]

I'm not trying to bait anyone here - just trying to determine the principle reasons why people are opposed to attacking Iraq. Some of you are obviously adamantly against the use of force against Iraq, so perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing the arguments which underpin your opinions. Here are a few questions I that might help me better understand where you are coming from. Share your answers to one or two (or all) if you feel like it.

 

1. How would you like to see the US deal with Iraq? End the embargo and forgo any attempts to prevent the present Iraqi regime from obtaining WMD and menacing their neighbors with them?

 

2. Do you think it would be possible to contain aggressive behavior by the present Iraqi regime, or enter serious negotiations with them if neither initiative were backed by a credible threat of force?

 

3. Are you opposed to the use of force because doing so would involve the US acting unilaterally rather than in concert with our allies on the UN Security Council? Were you also opposed to using force to stop the arrest the slaughter in Yugoslavia for this reason? Are UN Security council members like China and Russia in a good position to confer moral legitimacy on the use of arms?

 

4. Do you believe that the average Iraqi will be better off under Sadam or one of his protege's than under a regime established by the US?

 

5. Do you believe that Saddam Hussein has not spent the better part of the past two decades attempting to aquire every WMD that he could get his hands on? Do you think that this his posession of these weapons would present any problems for the region or the world? Are you in favor of waiting until his regime aquires these weapons and the means to deliver them before acting? Will we be in a better position to deal with them then?

 

6. Are there any situations in which you would support the use of force against another nation?

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

[Fairweather]

My daughter is a high school junior and is starting the college search process. I only hope I am paying for her "education", and not political "indoctrination". Why don't parents demand the censure or termination of these (tenured, no doubt) professors who focus on idealogically twisted curriculum, left wing OR right wing?

 

I've already given her a very short list of "daddy-won't-pay" schools. (ie: Evergreen State College) Fortunately, for both she and I, UC Berkeley falls into the "daddy-can't-afford" category.

 

[mattp]

Fairweather:

 

I can understand your "daddy won't pay" policy for Evergreen, because it is clearly a liberal or perhaps radical oriented fantasy land. But I would say that if you have much respect for your daughter, you should have confidence that she would be able to withstand any indoctrination that she might suffer there. I bet that she is already "lost" if she is interested in going to Evergreen, but if she has a proper head on her shoulders she can make up her own mind at age 18 about what she wants to believe in. And I can assure you, Evergreen has consistently been rated very highly over the years, as far as actually getting a good education is concerned.

 

In the interest of fairness, I should disclose that I graduated there in 1981. I and my friends who graduated at the same time are still proud of and excited about what we did as undergraduates. Can many who graduated from the University of Washington in 1981 say the same thing?

 

-Matt

[AlpineK]

1. Keep bombing them whenever they try and get too uppity

 

2. Keep up the embargo and hire hollywood directors to depict a bumbling and idiotic depiction of Saddam.

 

3. We need to get along with our friends. We are big and bad and our army kicks ass, but we still need to get along with other countries.

 

4. I feel sorry for the average Iraqi, but I don't think we can do much for them.

 

5. Saddam is a prick. I'm sure he wants and trys to get nasty stuff, and I bet he has some, but you need a real reason to start a war. (The Gulf War was OK by me)

 

6. See above. I'm OK with our war in Afganistan and WWI and WW2.

[AlpineK]

I hope your daughter rebels and makes your life a living hell for the next 10 years, and then she gets settled down with a good life with solid liberal political views.