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I can only give beta for Zion. I've spent time there once in December. It was COOOLD! but warmed up nicely in the sun. I would expect precip at somepoint in time though snow is probably as likely as rain. Days are obviously short, Oscars was a good place to loiter at night. Get some chips and a beer and read a book. If doing any of the popular trade routes that you listed don't bring a ledge, just fix and fire. Sunniest routes are Spaceshot and Touchstone Wall. They might just be perfect in December. Moonlight gets morning sun but is shady after mid-day. Prodigal will probably be shady all day long in December. I avoided Touchstone for a long time because it has a rep as the "Cattle Route". However I did it this fall and found it to be excellent. The aid is great and the last four pitches of free climbing are really good. Basically a more varied climb than the other aid-trade-routes there. PM if you want details on any of them. Please don't bring cam hooks to Zion. They are unneccesary on the easier climbs and have badly blown out pin scars on them. HB aluminum and brass offsets and Aliens rule. Have fun!

Evidently the NPS has decided to develop a management plan for sport climbing and bouldering in the Skagit River Gorge (and elsewhere) in the park. They are requesting public comment! PLEASE SEE THE ATTACHED DOCUMENT if interested in commenting. I received this as a forwarded e-mail originally sent by someone who seemed like a pretty rabid anti-climbing enviromentalist. To quote.... "The Park has finally realized that natural resources are being destroyed and as more routes and boulder problems are created, more people are trampling and reconfiguring the landscape" If you like climbing there you might want to get a word in! 277927-Climbing Mgmt Scoping NewsRelease[1].1.doc

The BEST roadtrip is always changing. It seems to be the one that happened 5 or so years prior. Gives you time to romantisize it In '98 my buddy Owen and I drove 18 hours to the Big Sandy trailhead in the Wind Rivers. Hiked in with humongous packs of climbing gear and food. Spent 10 days in there climbing seven grade IV rockclimbs. Stellar moderate granite, basecamped in meadows next to gurgling brooks, sunshine everyday, tennis shoe approaches. The last day we emptied the remaining contents of our food bag, two granola bars. grabbing one each we hoisted our packs and hiked the nine miles out. See photo... Drove to Jackson , climbed perfect ice couliors and complex ridges before getting weathered off the North Ridge of The Grand trying an enchainment. Made up for it by climbing The Elephants Perch on way home. Hanging out in The Sawtooths during the long days of summer, cliff jumping, getting lit, climbing more multipitch alpine granite was perfect. Completely exhausted, I got home to find out I had lost 15 pounds. I've had great roadtrips since but never one where the synergy with my partner was so strong and long lasting. Leaving the Cirque - July 1998

Who's got it? Here's a picture of the northeast side of Slesse taken too many summers ago. NE Buttress certainly is a nice climb, anyone ever do the North Rib?

I don't know much more than you do Will.... Except that his bros climbed/jugged fixed ropes on the British Route that had been hanging there for.....16 years! Bet those were in good shape!

Sooo.......how do we get it?

I don't think you have much to worry about. Sawtooths are an incredibly beautiful range. I've only done a few alpine rock routes there, but they were beautiful and the potential seems endless. Supposedly there are some good snow and ice routes as well. I'm jealous....

It's sad that this website seems to DISCOURAGE some people from writing TRs rather than ENCOURAGE them. I get bored at work, I want something interesting to read! Short and to the point, purposely vague (Caveman ), poorly written, long and grandiose, full on chestbeating, whatever...I think we should be encouraging each other to talk about actual, real-life climbs we've gone out and done. I plan on writing more of my own and supporting others who do so regardless of the content or style. This place has been kinda dead lately a little more content isn't going to hurt! Yeah! I feel warm and fuzzy!!

Dick Cilley lives! I still remember my formative days in Leavenworth, running around with an equally inept buddy TRing all the 5.3s we could find. More than once you'd walk up offering to sell us nuts, cams whatever out of the back of your van. I bought my first guidebook (stapled together blue-covered Leavenworth Guide) from you. As teenagers without much clue about what climbing was all about, I think you lifestyle mistified us at the time. Way to keep sending! Darin

Noooooo!, crampons and ice axes are bad. We love the mud We want to be nice to the mud Not poke and stick it with sharp objects. Thats mean! The mud is beautiful We hold the mud softly in our hands Don't yank on it Don't squeeze it to hard! Stem gently on the mud, or the mud might fall away I have no clue why the fisher towers erode into mud. Cutler Sandstone is definitely very different from anything else in the desert.

Layton seems to have the bases covered, though I've got to add... Build a torch and go exploring in the Padden Creek Tunnel. 0.6 miles long stretching underneath the Happy Valley neighborhood. I got a couple sets of hip waders look me up.........

Thanks Peter for the efforts and Gary for the software recommendation. Here's a close up of the mud chimney. Woo Hoo!

I re-downloaded better images. Unfortunately I can no longer edit the original post. Hopefully a mod can help me out!

No way! It's sweet! Pray for a big, clear cold snap. Killer ice and styrofoam with good road access.

We fixed the first two pitches (crux) one day then climbed five more another. Jugged and started leading by headlamp, rapped the route just before dark. Erik, let me know what routes you want beta on, I'm familiar with the trade routes. climbingmoab.com is a good source of beta as well. Chuck, JB etc. Writing good TRs is hard, I might work on it if I have time.

Not to change the subject....but sounds like you might have had a good adventure to Jordan? Fill us in!

I began writing an epic TR centered on themes of conquering fear and self-doubt but I figured I'd get reamed for that, so here are some pretty pictures instead! I apologize in advance for the low image quality. Between getting the film scanned and resizing they came out pretty poor. South Face of The Titan in The Fisher Towers of Utah. I don't know of many places as beautiful and peaceful as the Fisher Towers. There is a feeling of the eternal here. In early November my buddy Marcus and I climbed the Sun Devil Chimney on the South Face of The Titan. A beautiful line that offered high advernture, awesome position and some really fine climbing to boot! The route takes a plum line up the sun lit face above Marcus cleaning pitch three Yes thats a pin. Yes the pitch has gone clean at C4. Lets just chalk it up to "situational ethics" Starting up the Mud Chimney pitch The Fisher Towers have a reputation for mud. Well largely undeserved, this pitch offered up a classic mix of Fisher climbing. C2/3 pin scars led up past bent 30-year-old star drives into a genuine Mud Chimney. A thick stucoe of congeiled mud covered everything. Protection was sparse, luckily the chimney is rated 5.7 or so. Of course it's probably one of the most intimidating 5.7's around. Fun stuff! Big exposure on pitch 5 This pitch started out easy enough up a C1 crack. Just above where I took this photo I had to aid up a mud packed crack of indetermitable width by mud threads, double length slings looped around hunks of dried mud spanning the crack. It all seemed ernjoyable once I was on a good cam above them. Looking north from the Summit 3 PM. The sun is beginning to set to the west. It is clear, still and incredibly quiet. A perfect November day on the Colorado Plateau. Life is wonderful.

Aaagghhh!!!!!!! I SUCK!!!!

I disagree that it's Madsen. I stood on that ledge a couple weeks ago (Smoker's Ledge??) it's a plaque to someone I had never heard of who died in his early 20's back in the 70's. A plaque to Madsen exists on that nice ledge above the Saint Vitus Dance area of the Apron. It has the following epitaph.... "Possessed of an unearthly fire, quenched by an early death" Seems somewhat appropriate today.

This post belongs in some sort of cc.com classics list

Necro's a wanker-ass piece-of-shit who really doesn't know WTF he's talking about. I'm guessing his greatest accomplishment is a 4 hour-clean-ascent of City Park. Way to go shit stick! Stick to doing your approaches and bails with your little butt-buddy Layton.

The kearny route? Tell me more....

So what's the deal with technical routes on this pretty bitchin subpeak of Baker? Necro posted a recent photo showing an almost in (???) drivel of ice on it north face above the Coleman Glacier. Is this the Polish Route established by everyones favorite clown puncher? Or is that the rampy stuff a little further to climbers right. Necro, Bob, Layton fill us in.

Faq Booty! If you leave gear behind, that's your loss. One mark of an experienced aid climber is that gear (or at least less of it) doesn't get left behind, dropped, disappeared. Should he give it all back? Thats his choice. If he's interested in retaining Good Karma yes. But when Will left a cam behind 1500' of the deck who shouldn't assume he's going to get it back. As for pins. Zodiac goes at C3F or 5.14a due to the 1000's upon 1000's of pins that have been nailed and/or fixed over the last 30 years. In all honesty If in 50 years the route goes at 13c because a few pinscar-fingerlocks are more generous from more nailing BFD! Should he have nailed less? Certainly, but it hardly detracts from the scale of his accomplishment. His first wall ever! Grade VI solo! That takes some amazing mental persiverance. What really burns me is Wills vicious attack on the guy here on CC.com. If he had a bone to pick why not pick it on RC.com where Ricardo and the whole Yosemite Aid circus posts. Best he could do is slam him there using an avatar. Stick up for yourself Will! post as wstrickland on RC.com if you think you've got a valid grievence. Me thinks PTPP would get off on this thread. Ricardo set us up with a guest poster! Eric vs PTPP

Richard is a hero. Will is a whinney little bitch. Comments like this (as in completely false)... "but to go and start pounding pins in a route that 99% of everyone who does it does it clean is just plain wrong." indicate that the rest of us don't know what we're talking about and should STFU. Richard run far, far away from this website it's not worth your time. Will get a counselor and work out your angst and insecurities in a more positive way.