dberdinka

I'm curious if some of the more vocal opponents of IB here can articulate their feelings about Dave Whitelaw's "Slab Daddy". Of similar length, difficulty, bolted-ness and also located in a Wilderness Area. Of course the primary difference is that it was established with hand drills. You note that even the dreaded LW had some involvement! Clearly Raindawg is simply pushing his strongest single arguement against IB. I'm sure he would have found a hand drilled IB equally objectionable. I think Bug is claiming that bolts qualify as "structures" as described in the Wilderness Act. So whats ok and what isn't under the rules of "willy-nilly"? Tvash are you indifferent to power drills? or against bolts in Wilderness areas? Ultimately I don't see a lot of clarity if the issues people have is with the bolts or the method of placements. As the D-town Crew has shown is is entirely possible to construct, using hand drills, LOTS of long, heavily bolted rock climbs. All it takes is experience, practice and dedication. The fact it when putting up a "crag" style route in the mountains of Western Washington, getting there, cleaning the route and Tr'ing pretty much relegate you to about a pitch-a-day regardless of how you're drilling. As Whitelaw mentions in his article, he and his compadres can handrill a 3/8" hole in 6-10 minutes, whereas a powerdrill takes less than a minute. But if it took you 3 hours to get to your high point, another 4 hours of cleaning plus an hour of Tr'ing, and now you need to place 8 bolts, what difference does it make if one guy could powerbolt it in 15 minutes or two guys could handrill it in just over an hour? My expectation is your going to see a lot more drilling in the future, particularly hand drilling as people discover that it's not the impossibilitly that we've (I've) assumed. How are you going to feel about that? One more aside, both D-town and IB are examples of "Wilderness" (with a capital W) areas where the boundaries are defined by elevation so that the valleys themselves can have roads punched up them so the forest can be clearcut whereas the economically useless "rocks and ice" can be protected. I'd guess a lot of crgas and potential crags are found in a similar situation. Tvash. The ban is on "Motorized" equipment. So anything with a spinning hard drive (think ipods) are banned in wilderness areas. Though I concede a signiifcant difference bewteen ipods and rotary hammers.

I've got a pair mounted on 190cm Fischer Outtabounds. If you weigh at least 170lbs it's a nice setup. I live in Bellingham. PM me if interested. Darin

For all the bitchin on the internet about it I thought Condermoraphine was pretty darn good! Plenty of bolts yes but not the bolted monstrosity it had been routinely described as. Presumably IB is not much different.

WOW! And to have my words turned on me like that. Oh my goodness! What a powerful arguement! Presuming one were to believe that placing a bolt and cutting down old trees having...well...absolutely anything in common. Purpose, visibility, enviromental impact, moral equivalence. You and your buddy are a joke.

How's da' weder?

Thats cool. How far up the road could you drive?

Say all you want. Those who DO don't care.

No. The vast majority of climbers are reliant on the creativity and hardwork of a few

Dickhead has a very valid point. Until you've actually gone out and put in the extensive time, hard work and $$$ of visualizing and then creating a high quality rock climb you simply don't get a voice in the discussion because you have no clue what your talking about. Seriously, it will change your perspective on the conversation. If there is one ethic everyone seems to respect it's the style of the first ascensionist. If youy don't like the style with which other people are establishing routes then go out and show them how it's done. Until then you just sound stupid.

There'll be no one will hear your screams from the Heart of Darkness...

In your pics I swear thats the most discombobulating bit of 5.7 I've ever climbed anywhere.

I imagine it's not really public information Graham but I'm curious what the annual market size is for NWD packs. 10? 100? 10,000? Maybe I'm just poor but I can't imagine ever having the dough for one of those.

I didn't realize first-hand knowledge was a prerequisite for spouting off around here. Having never climbed IB I must say that IMHO it is a true masterpiece, a work of everlasting art, based on the way it has engrained itself into the pysche of the PNW climber. Some climbers enjoy actually climbing it, the others enjoy using it as the prop of their consternation with which to project their identity of being a committed, untarnished, sin-free trad climber. If IB were to be actually chopped all persuasions of climbers would loose something of value, hence it remains. For all the grousing of a bolt-free alpine enviroment the simple truth is the ethics of climbing in the PNW as defined by historical standards is quite the reverse. Consider the extensive use of expansion bolts in the Cashmere Crags during the 1950's to reach the summits of numerous pinnacles. While it is a bit speculative on my part I wonder if this was not one of the first places in North America if not the world where bolting was a routine element of rock climbing. In the alpine no less! If you decide to chop IB you better take the summer off because remaining consistent to your personal ethics will require the removal of numerous long routes in the Darrington area and Washington Pass. Regardless in the northwest, with the bad weather and the immense diversity of the terrain, the one consistent ethic seems to have been that everything goes. If climbing IB would be a blight upon your resume I highly recommend you instead climb one of the long Doorish Routes that reach the main summit of Garfield. And please post a TR for those of us less skilled, though I won't be holding my breathe.

I'm sorry Off_White...but what a douche.

Harmony and Rising Sun both have good reputations. Rising Sun just did my head gasket/timing belt/water pump fir X000's of dollars and my wife's still excited they put Rain-X on the windshield. Personally I liked Harmony more they only did the parts of the tune up I couldn't do and seemed cool with it.

Ergos are all the rage but simply don't work very well at all with a small baby even with the insert. For front carrying they work quite well from 6ish to 18+ months of age. Bjorns work great with babies but seem to small by 8 month or so. If you really want the ultimate in organic, simple (and oh so expensive) Bellingham granola living check out didymos slings. They work great and are probably the best if you and your wife want to pursue the whole "sling baby" rearing thing. Backpacks are nice for hiking but around town a soft carrier is way more convient. We've used all the above but have never used a stroller.

Ther following two loops in the Glacier Peak Wilderness are absolutely beautiful. Both are nontechnical but generally above treeline through endless meadows. On the west side, starting near Darrington, Lost Creek Ridge-> White Chuck River -> Red,White /Sauk Passes -> Pilot Ridge. Certainly the first half of this loop is not very popular. On the east side, starting north of Lake Wenatchee, Phelps Creek -> Spider Gap -> Lyman Lakes -> Cloudy Pass -> Buck Creek Pass then out or keeping going over -> High Pass -> Napeequa River -> Little Giant Pass. The first half is swamped the second not so much. Definitely go to nwhikers for detail on these or other suggestions.

So basically no one here knows what they're talking about except the guy who designed the crampons. Hah! It's kinda funny he chimed in. Dane on Cascade Climbers ~~ Steve Grossman on Supertopo. Are you guys like buddies or something?

At 1:56 they're flying right by the NE Icefall on Three Fingers. Cool.

- my ass. This supersized fucktard who hasn’t see his own toes in 20 years and probably breaks into a sweat pushing open the door at his local Dairy Queen has suddenly decided that he needs to “keep the public safe” by regulating how you climb mountains. Even if you agreed that wilderness users should be required by law to carry certain equipment (which I don’t) the simple fact is winter mountaineering does not constitute a significant or even minor fraction of the accidents and resulting rescues that occur in Washington State. Once more, the following quote comes directly from a friend active in S&R Add on top of that the obvious factual errors in his response to pdk such as… “Just a few weeks ago, there was a story from Mt. Hood in Oregon, where a group of hikers was lost for several days.” (climbers that perished) “they can be purchased online from dozens of retailers for around $100.” (Actually they’re $300+) And it’s entirely apparent this guy doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about much less any interest. If he was genuinely interested in public safety, SAR expenses or the risks associated with outdoor recreation you’d think intellectual curiosity would lead him to develop at least a basic understanding of facts before introducing legislation. As Mr Liias freely admits he’s simply passing on legislation authored (or plagiarized) by a friend who’s sole intent is to profit off it. Should you write letters? Definitely. But this ball of lard deserves no breaks; he represents the worst kind of governance.

BTW here's your legislator, Marko Liass, who's trying to keep you safe! I bet he has a very good understanding of wilderness recreation. :rolleyes:

I asked a friend who's very active with the local mountain search & rescue group what he thought and got the following response... "You're bang on with your assessment. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single rescue mission in my past 7-8 years experience involving a mtn climber climbing above treeline in the months of Nov-March. The missions we do have during that time involve exactly what you mentioned - ob skiers, snowmobilers, backcountry skiers, hunters, etc., and rarely above treeline. "

There were some great photos in an early issue of Alpinist of some european climber riding the collapse of a really big pillar with the last photo being of the climber sitting in the snow looking relatively unscathed except for some serious snail eye. Both these dudes just seem ridiculously lucky.

The famous ice climb in Vail, Colorado 100' foot fall with a hundred tons of ice....and he lives! Sprayage on the Taco Sunday January 10th Tuesday January 12th You ice climbers are freaking STOOOOOPID!

While Mount Hood has had it's high profile (always high profile ) rescues in the last couple years I personally can't think of any rescue operations for climbers that have occured in the Cascades of Washington during the winter months. Can anyone else? Actually not entirely true. Alex and co's recent rescue in Tumwater Canyon but that was well below treeline! In contrast a snowmobiler got rescued off Mt Baker just last week.