AlpineK

fuzzy wuzzy was a bear fuzzy wuzzy had no hair fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy was he. I kind of like the Inferno by Dante too, but I'm not sure if that's a poem.

yes

huh it works for me I suggested that Greg W might want to get maried to Mike.

I believe this thread is about to take a turn for the worse.

Trask actually has a sense of humor on the other hand when you piss of Mike I gaurentee a firestorm of PM's threatening you. It's both funny and scarry at the same time. Good luck!

Why not start out by calling Mike Adamson a glorified Rent-a-Cop.

The main thing that went wrong at 3 Mile Island was shitty human factors engineering. The controls for the plant were very poorly designed so when they had a problem it got totally out of hand. In terms of economic impact if we sign on to Kyoto or try some other measure the biggest loser is going to be the coal industry. They know that, and that's why the Western Fuels Association (the coal industry) has funded so much bullshit science trying to stop the talk of climate change. There are a lot of very bad economic impacts. Just think how much every port city will have to spend to deal with higher sea levels. The current models show that Seattle and other NW cities will have to vastly increase the size of water reservoirs. Internationally the Insurance industry is going to get hit with a lot more claims due to, "freak," storms. Whole areas of Africa will stop being able to support any type of agriculture...the list goes on. Anyway I'd be willing to sign up for more nukes if some conservatives would sign up for higher CAFE standards.

However the government will end up subsidizing the drilling opperation just like they subsidized all other extractive businesses in the Western US.

I believe it's some police code; as in, "We've got a 4-20 in progress." I first heard it about 8 years ago too.

That's true, but they need to feel a little pain too. I know people who go to Bejing, and they bring back stories of a nasty city covered in coal dust. I figure just switching to oil would reduce the total carbon output. They may not have to meet the level of reductions a first world country should, but they need to agree to do more.

I agree that not involving China and India is the biggest weak point of the Kyoto treaty. On the other hand increasing CAFE standards has the effect of putting a stick behind the carrot. Detroit is very resistant to increasing milage standards for their vehicles. It's a very short sighted view. Just look at the problems GM is having; part of it is due to them missing the hybrid boat. The auto makes sure pitched a fit for years over installing air bags in cars, but it doesn't seem to have caused a major disruption in their sales. In the end forcing Detroit to increase their milage standards will make them more competative in the market place and thus more profitable.

You may want to look at how terms are defined. In the geologic sense 100 to 200 years is a couple seconds. Most reports I've read make predictions over that time period however a long time period is probably 100,000 years or more.

Hey j_b how come you're attacking Jay B when it was Fairweather who was pitching the biggest fit about Jim's vacation to Europe.

Yeah, and no more cheating at the base of Godzilla; I came back on Sunday and killed that maple.

My chainsaw is my permit bitch.

Grumpy grumpy grumpy. Me, I'm in a good mood. I went climbing and cut down the tree at the base of Godzilla.

iain I think a good percentage of why Fairweather is so grumpy stems from the fact that he's posting at noon on a beautiful Sunday. I know you're only a peak bagger not a real climber Brian, but you should try and get out a little more. Here's a nice picture that should cheer you up Brian.

Chocolate chip. It was a nice sunny day at Index.

There's a market in Chicago that just started up that trades the rights to emmit carbon. I believe they measure the rights in tons of carbon emmited per year, so I'd not judge Jim on one week ot of the year. In fact most business measures are at shortest per quarter. Speaking of trading rights to emmit carbon my understanding that trading like this is a very effective way of dealing with environmental problems. I'm too lazy to search, but I believe the first time this model was used was for dealing with fluorocarbons. When trading first started a lot of environmental types thought that it wouldn't work and a more traditional set of regulations was the only solution, however the trading market proved to be a much simpler solution with less pain for all parties.

He didn't say anything wrong Brian. What he said was that Jim was driving to europe in a vehicle that gets 45 mpg. Each pasenger on the flight is also. In any case the things you do day in day out have a much greater bearing on your yearly consumption of stuff than what you do on vacation.

I heard that same story with only a few details changed about 8 or 9 years ago. I suspect urban myth.

As far as standards go fleet milage has gone down over the last 10 years. GW has offered a few carrots, but you need both a carrot and a stick. Who's to say that using less carbon is going to be a drag on the economy. Somebody's got to develope and market the emisions reducing technology; and you can bet they'll be making money. The more we sit on our hands the more the Japanese and europeans will have us at a technological disadvantage. Look at hybrids; Ford had to buy the technology from Toyota.

I have to respect DFA for getting a vote without putting out effort, but I'm hoping to come from behind to win it all. I just made a post that'll piss em off.

Well your president isn't even trying KK; perhaps if he showed some effort things might start improving. Can you say CAFE standards.

"Hansen's team, reporting Thursday in the journal Science, said they also determined that global temperatures will rise 1 degree Fahrenheit this century even if greenhouse gases are capped tomorrow." Mostly due to the fact we've already pumped a lot of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere already. Perhaps we should think about not making a bad situation worse.