tvashtarkatena

As usual, you have NO idea what you're talking about. Example is the only thing that works? Once again, you have NO idea what you're talking about. Check these guys out: (they work by support) One Step At A Time Classy! Now that you feel better about yourself, you can load up that bong and engage in some fantasy sport-climbing! Yee haw! Thas wuz a rrllly schtinging comebachhhhh... ...member, marihua, marhuay...potsch rllly bad f'you... ...xcuze me, Ah don' feel sho good....

All that is human must retrograde if it does not advance.

Airbus agreed to move both its tanker (military) and commercial aircraft final assembly (for the same model) to Mobile and thus create 3000 American jobs. That probably sealed the deal. It's a good move for Airbus to outsource as much production as possible to counter the strength of the Euro; large aircraft are purchased in dollars.

You will also get this designation ("lame") for using pickets in my experience Especially if you try to use a picket as a leash.

Being a pot-head, pot head. The results have been in for a long time: pot will make you lazy, dull and unambitious. Is that what you are? You want your kids to get into that? And unless you're growing your own, you might be at the bottom end of participating in the web-of-death that surrounds a lot of illegal drugs. (Try accidentally wandering into some cool-dude's plantation in the woods and see what happens to you.) Listen to what brother sirwoofalot got to say....and trust me, there are plenty of other similar testimonies: Ummm, Raindawg: You might want to give up your beloved fermented beverages before you start preaching about sobriety to others. If and when you ever do, you might even learn that it's neither OK nor effective to preach about sobriety at all. Example is the only thing that works in department, and you're certainly no example. I.e.: STFU.

The study posted only tested screws tilted downward, and did not test screws placed perpendicular to the ice, so no comparison was made between the two orientations. The study relied on a previous study's conclusion that -30 degree angle placement can take higher loads than 0 degrees, but without looking at that original study, it's hard to judge how conclusive it was. When I did a search on Harmston, the author of one of those previous studies, I came up with this quote from him: "In my mind, the best placement is always perpendicular to the ice if possible." link It's important to keep in mind that the results of these studies are often ambiguous, involve low sample sizes, and are difficult to draw hard conclusions from, by the authors' own admissions, due to understandably wide variations in ice quality. In the final analysis, manufacturers unanimously agree with Harmston by recommending that screws be placed perpendicular to the ice surface. This practice also saves climbers some unnecessary excavation. Having said that, it's probably no big deal to tilt a screw downward a bit, as long as you don't tilt it upward at all.

linky? Or is it a google project? Oh, you provided it. Thanks. No argument. Just a discussion.

Sorry to spoil your day there, Halifax. I took Fairweather's bait and I shudda known better. I do think our various interpretations of the Bill of Rights are worthy of discussion, though. there were already lots of good points in the thread. none of which were made by you.

With all due respect to whatever tests you've done, I'll go with the manufacturer's recommendations. I believe their testing is probably more comprehensive and rigorous, particularly given their liability exposure. Plus, as I mentioned previously, they design their hangers for a 90 degree pull. I can see where adding a downward (I assume you meant downward)angle theoretically would be a good idea to reduce the cantilever force (oh, wait, there is none, right?), but in practice, a screw placed at such a high angle would thin out the upper part of the cone of ice around the threads that actually holds the screw in too much, thus reducing the overall strength of the screw placement. Perpendicularly placed screws produce the greatest volume of ice in that cone, and thus the strongest screw placement. I'm not what stubbies have to do with this particular issue. Optimal screw placement guidelines apply to all types of screws, regardless of length.

Matt, Matt, Matt. Just wipe these two turds off your shoe and go have a beer. It's Friday. Remember, you can only have intelligent discussions with people that are, well, intelligent.

Well, I'm not going to quibble about the definition of 'cantilever'. Most of the readers here understand the term, and you can't bend anything without a cantilever, or moment force, and screws definitely fail by first bending, then pulling out. Again, I invite anyone whose interested to watch screws fail on Petzl's strength test videos to gain a better understanding of how failure occurs. All modern screw manufacturers recommend that you place the screw perpendicular to the ice surface, not between 10 and 30 degrees as you've recommended. The hangers are not designed for that angle, and, from a practical standpoint, it's difficult enough to clear the ice while rotating the hanger at zero degrees, nevermind some other angle. Again, interested readers should check out the manufacturers websites rather than take the advice of an avatar on a climbing forum.

We built this country on Rock and Roll

I'm not sure of the point of this last post other than a misunderstanding of my post, but some knowledge of how screws typically fail is probably in order. Again, there are some great videos on Petzl's website that show screws failing that are worth watching. Yes, ice quality and placement angle are key; that should be obvious to anyone. What I was addressing was placements in not so ideal ice. The maximum downward angle for proper screw placement is only between 0 and 10 degrees, so there is still a huge cantilever force on the still nearly perpendicular shaft during a fall. Watch Petzl's videos and see for yourself. In any ice, the unthreaded shaft of the screw deforms downward towards the direction of the load. The screw begins to pull out as this is happening, accelerating this process. Placing a longer screw through an outer layer of bad ice without proper excavation will really accelerate this process. This bending transfers the initial cantilevered force on the screw to a longitudinal (pulling) force on the threads. When this force is great enough, the cone of ice holding the threads blows out.

Just a note of correction; it was previously stated that U.S. tax rates are lower than elsewhere. Perhaps, but it is not because we're somehow more efficient; it's because we fund our government through debt rather than taxation. Like most of our policies, it's unsustainable and, as we can all read in the papers, coming back to bite us.

While we're talking screw strength, here's another fun fact: In good ice, a well placed screw is actually stronger than a V thread, according to recent failure tests performed by Petzl.

I don't know about the last statement, but 13 and 17 cm screws having similar holding strengths makes sense, because its the threads that provide the holding power, and thread length for all screws except stubbies is the same. Along these same lines, using a longer screw to penetrate bad ice and 'get to the good ice' is not a good practice; the increased screw length creates a longer cantilever force on the threads (the bad ice has little compression strength to prevent this, so it's as if the end of the screw is cantilevered out into the air) and increases the chance that the screw will blow. It's far better to excavate down to the good ice and place a shorter screw in this instance.

I use a Canon Powershot with heavy gloves a lot. If you have trouble working the on/off button, which is flush to the casing, just use the little plastic thing on the end of the camera tether; no problem. Great camera. Works like a champ in really cold conditions.

I've heard this before but how would clipping both (half) ropes into one piece of protection double the fall factor? do you mean it increases the impact force on that piece; maybe because the two ropes together are less stretchy than one strand by itself? Yes. Similarly, fatter single ropes produce higher fall factors than skinnier single ropes. You don't fall as far with a fatter rope, but you strain your pro more. Fall factor a simplified way to express peak force on your pro. Ropes are essentially springs of varying stiffness, so rope type is an integral part of determining fall factors. Peak load in this type of system is determined by a) spring stiffness (i.e., type of rope), b) spring length (how much rope is paid out and therefore is available to stretch and absorb the load), and the load itself load (how far you free fall and how fat your ass is). Imagine climbing on a thick steel cable. Think that might increase your fall factor a bit?

Porter, I just installed a 'gimp leg' blade on my chopsaw. I can have that thing off for you in about 2 seconds.

As for Van Halen, I'd rather hear my own screams from sawing my own leg off with an oyster shell.

Release your monkey, Kevbone, and free your mind.

If anyone attempted to play Rush on the island, I'd spear kill them.

Particularly since we've been seeing nothing but since the early 80s.

No difference. Many Gods love me, apparently. I get that alot.

"and the mah-oon, shahnz on the ba-ayyyyy..."