ericb

I think that when people who have a set of convictions about supernatural beings, and they cite those convictions as the central motivation for actions or beliefs that range from straight-up madness to mildly unsettling irrationality - it shouldn't be surprising that folks who don't share those convictions criticize them and/or those who hold them. If you find a case of an atheist or an agnostic who openly cites his atheism or agnosticism, or the desire to champion either cause, or his intent to strike down the enemies of atheism or agnosticism - as the motivation for committing an act of barbarity or madness, or as the justification for persisting in a delusion that's completely at odds with the facts - then you'd have grounds for critiquing those beliefs and those who hold them, IMO. Does communism count? Granted, it's not really a person per se, but a country of like 1 billion people

And the tape gloves

Headed there in June....any recommendations for a good guidebook?

Not as much as you......that does not change the fact that I will NEVER lay a hand my children. KB....why doesn't it surprise me that you can't grasp the concept of discipline without corporal punishment?

You mean it's not just me?

Can you point me to these studies? I'm interested in seeing how in depth this has been studied. There is a *vast* literature available on this. "1: Drug Saf. 2004;27(12):831-40.Links MMR vaccination and autism : what is the evidence for a causal association? Madsen KM, Vestergaard M. Department of Epidemiology and Social Medicine, The Danish Epidemiology Science Centre, Aarhus, Denmark. KMM@dadlnet.dk It has been suggested that vaccination with the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine causes autism. The wide-scale use of the MMR vaccine has been reported to coincide with the apparent increase in the incidence of autism. Case reports have described children who developed signs of both developmental regression and gastrointestinal symptoms shortly after MMR vaccination.A review of the literature revealed no convincing scientific evidence to support a causal relationship between the use of MMR vaccines and autism. No primate models exist to support the hypothesis. The biological plausibility remains questionable and there is a sound body of epidemiological evidence to refute the hypothesis. The hypothesis has been subjected to critical evaluation in many different ways, using techniques from molecular biology to population-based epidemiology, and with a vast number of independent researchers involved, none of which has been able to corroborate the hypothesis." "1: Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2007 Dec;82(6):756-9. Epub 2007 Oct 10.Click here to read Links Vaccines and autism: evidence does not support a causal association. DeStefano F. Statistics and Epidemiology Unit, RTI International, Atlanta, Georgia, USA. fdestefano@rti.org A suggested association between certain childhood vaccines and autism has been one of the most contentious vaccine safety controversies in recent years. Despite compelling scientific evidence against a causal association, many parents and parent advocacy groups continue to suspect that vaccines, particularly measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCVs), can cause autism." Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, It might be worthwhile for you to look through the literature in Pubmed. If there are any journal articles that you find that you'd like to get PDF reprints of, shoot me a PM and I can send it to you via e-mail. JayB - are you a parent?

Can you point me to these studies? I'm interested in seeing how in depth this has been studied. JayB et al....one of anecdotes in this thread and elsewhere is that the those that choose not to vaccinate are either religious wackos, or paranoid ignorants gobbling up conspiracy theories. The irony is that one of the primary discouragers of the MMR vaccination is Dr. Sears, the father of attachment parenting (family bed, anti sleep training, etc.). His reason for not giving your infant the MMR vaccine is that, according to him, the probability of side effects from the vaccine are greater than the odds of contracting the diseases themselves. You can choose to agree or disagree with this reasoning, but it's still REASONing.

The MMR autism link is certainly causing pause. Our 11-month old is coming up on his MMR vaccination soon. I think the reason people are looking at MMR is more about the timing of when the MMR is given, and when symptoms of Autism begin to appear. The thing is, if you start asking yourself what 1st world children are exposed to today vs. 20 years ago....well shit. Think about our diet, chemicals, radiation.....

Damn - two routes that I pulled up short on and had to downclimb....if only it wasn't my wife's first Mother's day weekend.

of course it had nothing to do with Patty Murray

Because Asia is much bigger than Iraq..... Iraq is a country on the continent of Asia, as is Myanmar, numbnuts. You are not that dumb to miss my point right?.....and yes....i am a numbnut..... This is an unfair insult of Kevbone. Unfortunately for all of us, his nuts seem to be quite functional relative to the rest of him.

WC - have you gotten an MRI?....if you haven't and your insurance will cover it, it might be worthwhile.

IMO, Ironically, I think the only way for you to gain credibility here is to have 5 fewer posts

hmmmm....I was considering taking my wife up this climb, but I'm rethinking it if the walk-off is really that bad.

boring is right....now if they polled people from my hometown of Spokane, then they would have some stories

I think one big difference between the Marmot and all of these is that it has a PU vs. PTFE membrane.....I'm not sure that PU has been demonstrated to breathe as well as PTFE. You might not be able to get much feedback on the Alpinists' performance in the PNW climate, but he Alpinist uses Marmot's "Membrane" laminate, so it would be interesting to see what folks' experience has shown with Jackets made out of this vs. PTFE laminates.

are you looking specifically for leathers or just a single boot...the Lowas you mention look like they are mostly synthetic

Bstach...where'd you get that little wind/rain suit? I could use something similar for our little dude

edited for accuracy - you had an extra "t" in there

Not sure how it would keep the bugs out.

I've got a hubba hubba, and love it....for the use mentioned it would be great because it's a great bug dome if that's all you need, but use in the alpine might be questionable as I don't think it does great in high winds. I don't know if they've changed the design but my only real beef with it is that the there are tie downs on the fly, but not a corresponding anchorage of the fly to the poles near these points, so anchorage of the fly does not translate to the poles.

I call bullshit. "moderate" has little to do with what the world's best athletes are doing. "moderate" has to do with what a majority of the athletes are doing. A synonym of "moderate" is "average". The world's best marathon runners can finish in a little over 2 hours. By your definition, a "moderate" finishing time would be around 3 hours. After all, 3 to 3.5 hours is achievable if you train. In truth, less than 10% of marathon runners finish in less than 3.5 hours. The average is 4.5 hours to finish. Sorry, I had to bring some logic into the discussion. No apology necessary...this is on the climber's board and not in spray

I also don't have the stones to tip my hat as to what MY definition of moderate is on this BB. Remember my Outerspace thread??? Once bitten.....

Just what I was thinking but didn't have the stones to immortalize it on a BB

I've got the day off and would like to get an early start for a ~6 hour outing in the Snoqualmie area tomorrow (Friday). I'm Thinking maybe Snoqualmie mountain - Phantom or Slot, but open to suggestions. I'd like to be back by early afternoon if possible.