Raindawg

There is no need to endorse or perpetuate sport-climbs at crack-friendly Index. There are plenty of such climbs at Exit 38, Little Si, (off of I-90 out of North Bend) or other chossy monstrosities. Resist the clip-ups and keep it clean. That's the future.

Hey Captain Know-It-All:....that's laughable...you're WAY out of your league, li'l man! 14,000+ posts on cc.com....mostly antagonistic...it speaks for itself.

You have NO idea....you really don't.

We've discussed this as a real scenario (among others) for at least 20 years including escape plans. The only thing that was a surprise was the timing (inspired by elsewhere) and the amazing restraint of the military. Now we're all watching daily to see how this sorts out. I have two trips planned there in the next 12 months so it should be fascinating.

DID I FKN CALL THIS ONE? HUH? I've read your stuff. It wasn't hard to predict. I got three decades of experience with that place, and as usual, I find your perspectives shallow. If you really knew what was going on, you might not be so cocky. Uhhh..... Egypt has been mostly Islamic (about 90%, and Sunni) for about 1300 years now, with about a 10% Christian minority. Watch out! Here come the Muslims!

How 'bout "Weak-Sauce"?

Really now! "Money where your mouth is..." a vacuous jr.-high bully-taunt second only to "don't write a check your @ss can't cash." :rolleyes:

Ya, Joe...How dare you comment! Just shut up until you've climbed "Infinite Bliss" and soloed the West Ridge of Everest without oxygen. Ever O.D. on heroin or vote for Mubarek? No? Then your opinion on those subjects are likewise worthless!!! Shut up, Joe!

What "The Ospray" said was one of the best posts in this whole fiasco but it's been virtually ignored. Truth hurts, eh? P.S. Ospray....bro...drop that stupid "the best climber is the one having the most fun" quote...it's a superficial cliché, it's meaningless and it ain't true. aloha, Raindawg.

What Dane said!

you'r commenting on unsolicited lectures?? W T F! now i have heard just about everything!!! ... Pot/kettle black... A predictable personal attack. You might wish to conisder that nearly any response on a bulletin board such as this, can be construed as a "lecture", if you choose to do so. On the internet, you can see the name "Raindawg" or whoever and scroll on by and avoid their comments or perspective! You freely chose to read and comment with the above quotes. In person...you can walk away, or in the case being discussed, shop elsewhere if you don't like the aggressive advice from the sales-dude.

Like the draw-"poachers" at the Smith Rocks, recently and prominently "discussed" on cc.com. Indignant confronter: "Dude...do you know that you're, like, poaching those draws? Like, someone's working on a 5.14 which is, like, really hard and you, yourself, probably couldn't spend a month siege-rehearsing the moves into submission so you'd better give all that abandoned eyesore stuff back to us and leave the premises." By the way, I've inserted plenty of metal into the Lower Town Wall, and it's gone in,and come out, clean! (Do some cc.com historical research under the topic "Rock Cop" for a rowdy example.)

As I said above, same dude would probably sell you loads of hangers, quick draws and drilling jive to use for permanent damage wherever you dang well please, but at the same time, will preach to you about the very pins they sell in their shop. "We'll sell you the pins, but don't use them in my backyard! Wanna buy some bolts? Unlike pitons, they're permanent, but they won't "scar" the rock! They're like totally fun!"

Addressing the above: It is your choice to trash the environment whether you agree with my definition of such or not. It is your choice whether or not to agree with my "moral and ethical" standards or not. Can I "make" you do such? No, sir. It relies upon your free volition. But ideally you will come around to my favored point of views. A pint to you.

I care. You came to buy gear and you got an unsolicited lecture. Same dude would probably sell you loads of hangers, quick draws and drilling jive to use for damage wherever you dang well please! I find it's best to do your own research before you go into a shop. There's no guarantee that "the guy in the green vest" or whatever has any useful knowledge or experience (unless he's the owner of Pro Mountain Sports). I know of at least one Feathered Friends manager who is registered on this site. Hopefully he'll read this and respond on or off-line.

Dude...clearly the original moon comment was an attempt at humor...but it brings to mind the old justification used so many times in these kinds of "discussions" in that as long as there is something of greater environmental or ethical questionability, then anything less is excused. For example,there were some heated exchanges on cc.com a few years ago during which the closely-spaced bolts on "Rap Wall" at Snoqualamie Pass (complete with long-term hanging draws), were called out, and some folks tried to make the point that those itty-bitty bolts and those itty-bitty fixed draws were nothing compared to the big ski areas next door. I say nonsense...the ski area might be out of your control, but you do have control over your own actions, small and large, and leaving your garbage on the crags, or creating new permanent trails, is your choice. By the way, someday I hope we'll clean up the garbage we've left on the moon...and respect the place for the "magnificent desolation" that it is, and not tear it up it like we've done down here. And good day to you sir! I said...GOOD-DAY!

x2 So...I guess that absolves everybody from responsibility for their own personal choices and actions, right here on earth, eh?

Dude...you just won The Weakest Analogy of 2011 Award (thus far.)

Maybe there should be. In my opinion, making an extra-big mess (via rap-bolting, bolting near cracks, etc.) to create a "free-climbing" challenge is a seriously dubious practice, no matter where it's practiced or by whom.

There was once a noble attempt to seriously limit bolts, but that fell away to the convenience, assured safety, and short learning curve of sport-climbing which has delighted the masses. but...rock climbing can mature and evolve beyond its current primitive reckless and selfish attitude and its participants can practice restraint rather than leaving their metallic trails everywhere, sometimes even festooned with the ever-popular fixed quick-draws. Bolting, as predicted, is being more widely seen as a problem and likewise as predicted, The Man is increasingly stepping in to limit it because many climbers don't seem capable of not creating a mess.

Obvious summer pics.

Where was the overwhelming outrage when Mt. Garfield was rap-bolted in your own backyard??

Push yourself and accomplish the hardest moves possible on a rope...a top-rope. It's less intrusive than a line of bolts and you can climb plenty of "blank faces" safely. That will be the natural progression of the sport when folks start realizing that they can't drill a mess anywhere they choose. Now THAT is funny!

Awesome! At least some progress is being made. Sign me up for the authorization review board!

Correct. It is now a sad outdoor rock gym. I've spent plenty of time at Smith. Like so many other areas, it was a lot nicer before many of its walls were recklessly commandeered by rap-bolters, the end result being crowds and a considerable amount of vertical garbage. I'd rather drive an extra 15 hours and go to Joshua Tree. Do you know this to be true??? I guess you don't know. FYI, I've been actively involved for over 30 years. Where do you come up with this stuff??? You don't have a clue! If you think "it's all good", well it isn't. If you think that not agreeing with you is "judgmental", then call it what you wish. The reality is, you can't always do anything you want or always have it your way. Again....you have no idea about what you're talking about. Why don't you address the topic instead of reacting with some sort of lame personal attacks against someone you know little about other than an opinion you disagree with? You came up with the 5.6. thing yourself in your earlier attack-post. FYI, I've tried sport-climbing....and I have a first-hand point of view....and I reject it for many reasons as has been posted many times on this site. And 5.6 or 5.11, or in a wheelchair....the concepts discussed here are easily grasped. I can't even fathom how you came to that conclusion. 2+2=22??