Raindawg

Any chance that the girl involved was named "Francie"? I had a similar experience...me and the boys stepped aside to take a whiz in some shrubs in Glacier Basin. We were quickly joined by Miss Francie who proceeds to pee competently while standing within a foot of me. We were all flabbergasted until she displayed her anatomically designed funnel-with-hose apparatus. Such a bonding experience! Here's a current manifestation: You Go Girl!

Corona Arch - which is on BLM managed land so climbing on it is legal: http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/moab/recreation/hiking_trails/corona_arch_trail.html You can rappel from it as well: http://climb-utah.com/Moab/corona.htm Looks like another big way to ruin a big sandstone arch. Set up five big bolted anchors and enjoy all da scooby-doo-ing! "Yee ha! Look at me! Weeeeeee!" Thoughtless goof-balls!

The thinking about G_d comes a bit later....when you figure out that you really shouldn't have survived.

"You are a child of the universe....you have no right to be here.

Less than an hour ago, I somehow survived a sliding wreck on my motorbike with a speeding car at an intersection. It just reinforces the notion that there are plenty of survival opportunities not only in the mountains, but in mundane urban environments as well. Makes ya think 'bout G_d as well. P.S. Ouch! But despite the wounds on my legs, my Old Navy khakis stayed intact! Figures that one out! And yes, I was wearing a helmet.

Leavenworth Alpine Guides: original professional staff, 1980's. Roll-call: DECEASED or woefully injured: Dave Stutzman....one of the best, and one of the most dedicated alpinists I've ever met. Perished off-season in an avalanche in a ski area in Montana. Karl Schneider: traded in a comfortable corporate life to pursue climbing. Avalanche on a peak in Peru. Jeff Splitgerber: flew off a peak and was the first North American paraglider fatality. Bob Nelson: struck by a rock and took a mighty tumble down Mt. Goode. Katie Kimbell: a very talented climber who was terribly injured in rock fall? that nearly tore her leg off, but survived, and to the best of my knowledge, is alive and well. Survived The Experience Relatively Intact: Jim Donini: owner and inspirational figurehead of Leavenworth Alpine Guides....and still one of the most bad-ass climbers of all time. Alison Osius: one of the most motivated climbers ever, who has shared her literary insights with the climbing world for at least a couple decades now. Don Ryan, who used to thrive on free-soloing, took some hard ground-falls, and toned it down quite a bit. Yup.....and those dead guys can be added to the other 20 or so friends that have been killed climbing over the last few decades. Why am I still alive?....I think it's because although I once was a total fanatic, I really did tone it down quite a bit and I'm more calculating and contemplative....and also more successful as a result.

For those of you who didn't listen to Reinhold Messner's recent short comments, here are a few choice quotes from someone who has been dismissed as an "old man" because he ain't 22 and clipping some "rad bolts": Reinhold Messner: "So, I would say to young people if you like to go in to make experiences, strong personal experiences, go where nobody else is going. Don’t leave any tracks—your footprints, but the snow will, the wind will destroy them. And so wilderness is there forever." "Preservation is quite easy if each one is going where the others are not going, and leaving nothing. We are free to go everywhere, but we are not free to destroy the places where we make our experiences." RE: bolts on Cerro Torre: "Somebody put in these bolts. And he didn’t ask anybody. And if tomorrow, a young climber is pulling them all out, I will clap." Diddo for Mt. Garfield and a hundred other places. Here's the link again if you care to listen to the whole thing. http://inclined.americanalpineclub.org/2012/02/reinhold-messner-at-outdoor-retailer/ And consider this....written from a not-so-distant time ago but still relevant: http://upwardtrail.multiply.com/journal/item/1/The_Murder_of_the_Impossible Yup....I've heard Messner, Doug Scott and a bunch of others dismissed as being "old" and "out of touch" because they're older than many here and don't agree with the contemporary masses, especially when it comes to leaving bolts and other permanent reminders of your passing by. Well the fact is, when it comes to pushing the boundaries, they DID IT, and most of you DIDN'T or HAVEN'T or possibly WON'T. You should sit at their feet and take notes!

Buffoon? Really? Check again....who has 16334 posts???

I disagree but I think I understand where you are coming from Don. First, I wasn't there. Nor were you. The person you quoted, who was there, says they were happy with the outcome. The officers needed to confirm that the perp, a psycopath who would kill them and apparently anyone else as well, if he could or needed too, was not in a position to do so. They felt this was the best way. No one was hurt, and everyone quickly got on their way. Police made a call and the public safety certainly factored in to their decision. A gunman with a gun in your back directly behind you, in a crowded room full of hypersensitive civies, could easily take a bunch of officers down. You should save your rancor for the creeping totalitarianism we all see everywhere else. For instance. When I was a lad, rangers were not cops and not armed. They were there to help folks, not be Law Enforcement Officers. LEO's are trained to control any situation they encounter. Thus, when we now encounter these "officials" in the regular course of business instead of feeling equality and the warm fuzzy, we are often left feeling like a "subject" that needed to be warily watched and even controlled. We are not equals, but underneath them in stature. There is an us VS them dichotomy. The rangers have better radios now and can easily do what they use to do back then: ie,call in State Patrol when they needed too. This jackwad, for instance, would not have gotten away under the old way of doing business. Yet they sell things line rangers Andersons death to us as the kind of things that make it necessary to control us citizens...subjects. We see these kinds of thing percolating through out our lives, instead of a quiet knock on the door by the local sheriff who will discuss it with you, you now have a SWAT team of heavily armed storm troopers kicking doors in and screaming at folks. Slamming them to the ground to maintain "control". Even if the victims are just a couple of old folks who are not harming anyone. I don't think that kind of thing is going to have a happy or good path for our country. Bro....check out again the picture I posted. Nobody in a so-called "free-society" should be subject to that kind of procedure. The guys with the guns were probably trained by some sort of "procedure-book" to deal with some sort of hypothetical "situation", but I'm not willing to accept that it's "appropriate" given the situation with random civilians. And it wouldn't surprise me if some of the rounded-up technical-hostages in that situation thought it was "cool" or "like in a movie". No it ain't. I'd gladly stand tall and be frisked, but I've spent enough time in bona-fide police states where "on your knees" usually has a bad ending. Secondly, I mourn for Ranger Anderson like everyone else should. Her heroism might have disrupted an immense tragedy if the perp had made it to the public at Pardise. On the other hand, I can't imagine that she would allow the Park to be shut down for the week (which it apparently is) so she could be mourned. To the contrary, we should all flood to the Park this week in her memory. (But even so, you'll be turned back at the gate of YOUR PARK because others officially mourn differently than you.) 'nuff said....for now.

16304 posts. LOL

Law enforcement officers order those in lockdown at the Jackson Visitor Center in Mount Rainier National Park to put their hands on their heads Sunday, January 1, 2011, while the officers compare the visitors' faces to that of a photo of the suspected killer of ranger Margaret Anderson. photo by Jeremy Best / For The News Tribune Yup....women, children, snow-shoers...out of town visitors...cross-country skiers....kneel and put your hands up in execution pose. Notice the child hiding under her dad on the right...and notice the fully uniformed guy in the distance giving orders. If you were in the parking lot that day....you were ordered inside "for your own safety".

You got your wish, dude. Happy new year. (now down on your knees!) :[]

Stand on your feet....allow a frisk...they'll find the weapon if you have one....leave the women and kids out of it if they're not suspect. "Put down your snow-play sled, happy family, and run into the happy visitor's center...we'll take care of you....after we got you on your knees with the assumption that you're possibly a deranged killer." I just saw a brief clip of the action in a news report...rows of visitors somehow compelled into Center and lined-up in a humiliating fashion. Maybe they got a soft-serve vanilla ice-cream cone for compensation! I got no problem with them hunting down the perp. and dealing with him....it's how the other folk are treated in the process. It doesn't have to be that way.

What I said I'd do above. Where do you think you live, man??? Putting the public ON THEIR KNEES WITH THEIR HANDS BEHIND THEIR HEADS is about two steps beyond what anyone should tolerate. I have no problem answering a few polite questions, showing my driver's license or even putting my hands up to show I'm weapons-free...but ordering a general crowd down like that???? This ain't Damascus!

First, may God bless the memory of Ranger Anderson and comfort her family and friends. Next, read this: Now read this: "Kind and considerate" eh? Glad I wasn't there. I'd remain standing, throw them my driver's license, and proceed to strip down to my polypro. Go ahead...taze me...those forced-to-kneel families and kids who came up to enjoy snow at Paradise that day aren't the Taliban. Our system should be so much better than that! _______________

[img:center]http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/150/408/643/ozeJaFO3PKzJfjL.jpg[/img] Starring "Danno".... [img:center]https://enterpriseportal.disney.com/gopublish/sitemedia/TPR/News_DLR/twidh_1104_thirdman_500.jpg[/img] workin' hard! [img:center]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8987/vlcsnap2011040220h50m34.png[/img] And lovin' the ladies! [img:center]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ki14cr%2BzL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/img]

And a giant high-five to those shark-jumpin' mischief-makers, Dwayner, Merv, RURP, Donna Top-Step and "pope" for the massive good times!

This be stupid....(count the permanently established arbitrary additions to public property...) and them some more silliness yet: But with modern "do whatever be convenient and suits ya for the moment ethics", its just another drill-facilitated, unchecked, free-style romp in the public park (the public not lookin' at the moment..but they gonna!.)

Pick your favorite iconic image of the incredible damage. (Almost as disastrous as that big quake a few years ago that knocked shampoo bottles off the shelf of a WalMart in Puyallup as shown repeatedly on the local news!)

Drunk Ski-Team Member Pees on Airline Passenger US skier tossed off team over in-flight urination By DAVID B. CARUSO, Associated Press NEW YORK (AP)—An 18-year-old was dismissed from the U.S. Ski Team’s development squad after he was accused of getting drunk and then urinating on a fellow passenger aboard a JetBlue flight. Robert “Sandy” Vietze, of Warren, Vt., was detained by police at New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport on Wednesday morning after arriving on a red-eye flight from Portland, Ore. He faces a federal misdemeanor charge of indecent exposure, according to the U.S. Attorney’s office in Brooklyn. “Based on the information we have, Sandy Vietze is in violation of the USSA code of conduct and team agreement, and has been dismissed from the team,” U.S. Ski and Snowboard Association Executive Vice President of Athletics Luke Bodensteiner said in an email sent to The Associated Press on Friday. The AP’s attempts to reach Vietze and his parents for comment have been unsuccessful. The phone has been ringing unanswered at the family’s home since Thursday, when news of the incident was first reported in the New York Post. Vietze was nominated to the development team this spring after excelling as an alpine skier at the Green Mountain Valley School, a top ski academy and high school in Waitsfield, Vt., where tuition runs as much as $42,384 per year. He had been scheduled to compete on the national ski team’s developmental squad for the 2011-2012 season. A Port Authority Police Department detective wrote in court documents that Vietze told him he had consumed five or six beers and two rum and cola cocktails before boarding the flight. He said he passed out in his seat and awoke to find himself being yelled at by the father of a 12-year-old girl. The girl’s father told the detective that when he returned from a trip to the bathroom at 2:30 a.m., he found Vietze urinating on his daughter. The man described Vietze as “out of it.” The Port Authority initially told the AP and other news outlets Thursday that federal prosecutors had decided to drop the indecent exposure charge, but a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office, Robert Nardoza, said Friday that the case is still pending.

Poor analogy. Unlike ideas, bolts have a physical reality and there are some of us who think that if they are to be used, they should be rare, especially on public property where not everyone appreciates the current unrestrained ability of anyone to permanently alter OUR rock environment for their personal entertainment.

Maybe because the discussion had to do with BOLTS? And maybe some folks believe it's a bigger issue than just a single bolt on City Park? And who decides when the discussion is over? When any given individual is bored with it? As they say....scroll on by if you don't want to read it. And the "usual suspects" aren't welcome? How about the usual BOLT-SUPPORTING suspects and THEIR "ranting and raving about bolts and sport-climbing in general"?

Seems to me that this site had a new policy of prohibiting personal attacks... yet I see that the ridicule of this Buckaroo fellow continues in a different venue. Just sayin'.

Seems to me that this site had a new policy of prohibiting personal attacks... yet I see that the ridicule of this Buckaroo fellow continues in a different venue. Just sayin'.