Raindawg

I read it the first time, and I reread it just to make you happy and it hasn't change my opinion of the venture no matter who's wasting the money in which quantities. I've spent a good part of my life in "lesser developed" parts of the world, mostly Islamic regions, and understand the situation and much of the cultural dynamics. It's great that your group with its many programs is trying to help with basic survival needs and some economic development. But if you come to a climbing discussion group expecting everyone to high-five you on this particular project, or anything in particular, you might be surprised that not everyone is going to agree with you. You can tolerate diversity of opinion, right? Get some coffee yourself.

Nearly out of money for a project that provides primary health care to over 7000 people? Perhaps you could find $105,000 that could support that Goljung project for over 10 years or perhaps provide care for 70,000 people this year, rather than raising money for a social experiment teaching a handful of Pakistani women how to become "empowered" through climbing. Speaking of Pakistan, how about our mountain friends still affected by the great earthquake of 2005? Couldn't they use a little more help with that kind of money? Someone had to say it.

And what's the budget for this venture?

I think money is much better spent on programs such as the above than on a mountaineering class/experiment. 7,000 people and three villages are helped, rather than a few handful. Mountaineering is a luxury. No food, clean water and basic health care: no big expedition fun. I would encourage people, if they wish to support the Mountain Fund, to do so in a way that addresses larger groups of people at their most basic needs, rather than some "All-Star" climbing experiment...and yes it will be an experiment, socially and otherwise, though no doubt well-meant.

Newbie? I've pooping in awkward places for years! The problem is volume related, not technique. PVC pipes? Ms. Muffy, you just might be more insane than I am..... will you marry me? Buy Your Own Tube!

That was one, REALLY BORING cartoon...zzzzz Here's my response: BETTER STATED

None of you love the ice like this fella: PASSION FOR ICE!

Check out this fine film of YOUR favorite Democratic Presidential Candidate! Klimbers for Edwards! And after you've reviewed all that, check out this HOT news item that just appeared and see where your money is going when you do all that klimbing to raise all them funds! Tue Apr 17, 11:16 PM ET Edwards' haircuts cost a pretty penny. By JOAN LOWY, Associated Press Writer Looking pretty is costing John Edwards' presidential campaign a lot of pennies. The Democrat's campaign committee picked up the tab for two haircuts at $400 each by celebrity stylist Joseph Torrenueva of Beverly Hills, Calif., according to a financial report filed with the Federal Election Commission. FEC records show Edwards also availed himself of $250 in services from a trendy salon and spa in Dubuque, Iowa, and $225 in services from the Pink Sapphire in Manchester, N.H., which is described on its Web site as "a unique boutique for the mind, body and face" that caters mostly to women. A spokeswoman for Edwards' campaign did not respond to requests for comment. Torrenueva — who specializes in men's haircuts — confirmed in an interview with The Associated Press that Edwards is a longtime client and friend. "I do cut his hair and I have cut it for quite a while," Torrenueva said. "We've been friends a long time." Referring to a picture of Edwards published Tuesday in The Los Angeles Times, Torrenueva said: "That's my cut." The stylist said he couldn't vouch for the source of Edwards' haircuts in other photos. One reason the cost of the cut was so steep even by Beverly Hills standards is that Torrenueva went to Edwards rather than the candidate coming into the stylist's salon a block off Rodeo Drive. "I go to him wherever convenient," Torrenueva said. He declined to identify where the cuts paid for by the campaign took place. Campaign records also show the former North Carolina senator's campaign paid $248 on March 1 to the Designworks Salon in Dubuque. According to Designworks' Web site, the salon and spa features a wide variety of beauty and health services, including massages, facials, body polishes, self tanners, and rosemary mint and Caribbean therapy body wraps. The salon's owners did not return a call. Pink Sapphire co-owner Ariana Franggos said the two payments last month_ $150 on March 7 and $75 on March 20 — were for doing Edwards' makeup for television appearances. She handles makeup for local television personalities and was referred to Edwards through that connection. "This poor guy. I'm telling you, I promise he's not in here getting facials and cucumber peels on his eyes or anything," she said. Edwards, 53, who has made alleviating poverty the central theme of candidacy, has been criticized for building a 28,000-square-foot house for $5.3 million near Chapel Hill, N.C. The complex of several buildings on 102 acres includes an indoor basketball court, an indoor pool and a handball court. Edwards, who was John Kerry's vice presidential runningmate in 2004, is also the subject of a YouTube spoof poking fun at his youthful good looks. The video shows the candidate combing his tresses to the dubbed-in tune of "I Feel Pretty." In 1993, Cristophe gave former President Clinton a $200 haircut aboard Air Force One as it sat on the tarmac at Los Angeles International Airport. Late-night comedians and columnists poked fun at the president for the expensive cut. ___ Associated Press Writer Beverley Wang in Concord, N.H., contributed to this report.

Dude... ????? Ever hear of building an anchor in a crack? "charicature"..is that anything like a caricature?

Fake climbing, fake hair and no respect for the environment. This self-absorbed clown represents some of the worst of what modern rock "climbing" has become: FAKE.

You put a bolt next to that crack and some people aren't going to clip into it on principle and will use the crack anyway. In fact, some people ain't gonna like that bolt at all. Got a way to bypass the questionable obstacle? Maybe this new route isn't worth establishing if you have to compromise it by bolting next to a crack.

This ought to cure all you butt-masters:

You just made up that statistic. And it's so 2007 to sweep it under the rug or toss away deeply held ethics, eh? They don't represent me nor a lot of other folks. They have their own agenda. Some of us, for example, don't consider the issues over this route "resolved" nor do we feel that "exercising restraint" on bolt-dependent (i.e. "sport") routes in the wilderness is enough. Again...it remains unresolved despite the opinion of the WCC.

Nope. Would have if I could have but I don't have the time. Pulling bolts is only the first step...restoration should be part of the process and maybe it was.

You are philosophically ignorant. I need not try heroin nor suicide to know that I wish to participate in neither. I am oppossed to the whole concept of "Infinite Bliss"...from its location, its style (sport) and the manner in which it was established. I don't really care if there are really good moves on it...as far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't exist...it's illegitimate and shameful. I am by no means the only one who thinks this way. By all indications, you seem to be. The word is "ethical". Three reasons were given above, all of which are contentious topics amongst climbers. There is nothing "weak" about it. You are not aware of this? Did you just start climbing yesterday??? Think before you post...or don't bother. Not for you. You can disagree if you like, many do, but it's a waste of time "discussing" anything with you until you do your homework on the in's and out's of these issues and engage in some thoughtful consideration before you pop off. I likely have nothing more to comment on this subject for now. I only made my statement about "enjoy it while it lasts" to bring up the fact to those that are unaware, that this route is extremely controversial. Those considering climbing "Infinite Bliss" should be aware of the issues and then thoughtfully decide whether or not they want to be involved in the mess. As for its continued existence, the only reason the route is still there is because there are major logistical and time issues involved in the proper removal and restoration of such a huge "route". P.S. I'm still waiting for my apology.

This REAL climber thinks the "route" is an ethical atrocity. "Enjoy" it while it lasts....its days are numbered. You know people bag on it for certain reasons. Rap bolted???? ….if you think this way…..never again climb at smith. Two it’s in a wilderness area…..SO F#$%ING WHAT. I didn’t hear you complain when they built I 90 though the wilderness area." Hey, vulgar-mouth: DO YOUR HOMEWORK. This is a HEAVILY debated topic involving the issues of bolting in the wilderness, bringing sport-climbing into the mountains, etc. Aside from that, this particular "route" involves controversy about wilderness boundaries. Do a little searching in the cc.com archives and you'll learn some of the in's and out's before you start popping off like I'm the first guy to say this. Regarding I-90....the first road was put through the area in 1867, the first car crossed in 1905. A railroad tunneled through in 1909. Where was I?....my parents were still children when the road was paved in 1934! As far as I-90 in its present state: it was enlarged with great sensitivity to environmental considerations...which is one reason you have that massive elevated bridge over Denny Creek. By the way....roads are a separate issue....you want to stand in one place the rest of your life? then trails and roads are necessary. Where they go and how big they are is a huge topic which isn't even relevant in this "Infinite Bliss" "discussion". Comparing chopping a route to the war in Iraq is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen on this site. There is no precedent being set here....it's been going on for years. Learn your history. Do some more homework...do a search, for example, on the topic of "Dan's Dreadful Direct" on Castle Rock in Leavenworth. Again, do your homework. P.S. Yeah....I think Iraq is bad. Climbing is utterly inconsequential in comparison....think about it. Mr. Chris say: That's a joke, son....just like Exit 38 is a joke. Mr. Tradclimbguy say: First of all, I don't believe that there is a "climbing community". Who would you include? Every kid who attended a birthday-party at a rock gym and ran out to buy a pair of climbing shoes at the REI? At one time there probably was such a "community", but ever since climbing has been mass-marketed via "sport-climbing" and the gyms, everyone and everybody seems to be a climber. Secondly, Index isn't the issue here (although it has its own problems with bolted cracks and such); sport-bolting in the mountains/wilderness is. "Kevbone" say: I'm just going to assume that this is just another one of your immature comments as you are now insulting my family. I really do expect an apology.

This REAL climber thinks the "route" is an ethical atrocity. "Enjoy" it while it lasts....its days are numbered.

Some scenes from the So. Cal. climbing scene c. 1979/1980! Dwayner and his buddy Pablo Cardenas rope up for the approach to the mondo beach crags! Some brutal bouldering on a '72 Cadillac El Dorado! Ice climbing in So. Cal.....get it where you can! Climbing buddy Denis Erectus plants his picks in the sickness! Don't fall here, dude!

Hey cupcake....they're called socks, but maybe in your world you automatically think of "tights".

Dwayner tippin' one back on a "mystery" crag, 1981. and doing some gymnastics on an unfinished Spire Rock in Tacoma, c.1975.

Dwayner on Angel Crack, Castle Rock, Leavenworth c. 1978.

Ashamed of your past, Mister?

Never underestimate the power of klimbers to organize and produce change, even presidential elections!

Are you the one in the pink shirt with the pony tails?

Hey Zim-Zam....luv ya babe, but I predict if Zappa had lived long enough to suffer through the full fruition of "rap", he would have produced a satirical album that would have brutally addressed the whole self-possessed, materialistic, violent charade of that particular genre. An just for you, mister!: Movin' to Montana!