bwrts

Huh? smoke another one girl. I never drew a topo, but I am sure FB drew several 44 years ago (on napkins, etc.)

there is less fracturing/jointing in the wall too

Kick em in the a$s.

Hah! if you want to get laid at pub club, then go to a different chatforum pub club...I figure there is prolly less sausage and more tuna.

Most routes on MEAST WALL are high quality and recommended...typically I was never disappointed with any route I did here. The rock is better quality/colorful and cracks are more pure like tieton.

RAT, hey are you out there? if so, what does the weather look like outside your window? do you think there is any snow in the highcountry? have you seen any ice yet? when is the sun coming back to seattle? are the seahawk going to the big game again this season? why does the traffic suck in seattle? Thanks for the info whenever and if ever you see this post which is now stuck in the matrix of the WWW.ccdotcoM

2006(today) -1962 (FA) ==>??yrs 44yrs old

Selkirk, why are being such an antagonist about a route older than you (assumption)? The route has been climbed hundreds or thousands of times just the way it was after FB et al. aided the climb and then Burgner and Marts freed it in 1966. Are the bolt hangers that sketchy (ie thin metal with cracks in them)????? Why do you care so much? I am being mouthy about this route because during my first attempt at this climb 15yrs ago, my dad went the wrong way up Lost Planet Airmen, took the whipper and came flying down upside down by the bush/giant flake belay above the finger crack. We assessed that he was off route and rapelled to the ground with our tails between are legs. We returned a week or so later with the topo fresh in our heads and I climbed up the ramp past the bush/giant flake belay. I had only been climbing two years (I think) and remember belaying on the O-so scary bolts. The fear was omnipresent yet I managed to bring my dad up and pass on the lead rack. We didn't die, the bolts held and I think I even backed up the bolt anchor with a piece or 2. SO in summary, the route is not a roadside sport climb. It is a large crag 2.5 miles from the trailhead and in the wilderness. It should continue (imHo) reflect the pioneer effort and keep the 1/4 bolts. Really perhaps adding One bolt, will suffice the concern and keep it "really safe." Remember climbing is dangerous and climbers of the old days were/are much bolder and safer than modern climbers.... the unwritten rule was the leader was not to fall cuz the team would die.

Q1- did you get to talk to Jim or Lee? Q2- when are moving? S1- I think the seam we did years ago may not be the Jim/Lee route. I am remembering ending more to the south of the Dolphin....maybe dan remembers better. Need big picture with lines drawn on for refrence to your topo. Please.

Ask rat.

Hell, I will bolt the bitch this november in the rain with a goat as a belay bitch....kidding. How about we leave the damn bolts alone, consult Fred, find out he really doesn't care and then add two new shiny bolts next to the mank (for prosterity). That way all parties are happy. Except maybe pope, as we would be adding holes to the stuart batholith...OMG. cheers.

Yes, both erie and lopez are part of the Fidalgo Complex, however the lithologies of both rocks, I "think" are not the same. My refrence is only at 1:625K so, it is very broad. I have not spent as much time on Lopez as Fidalgo or even San Juan. Look fwd to exploring the island sometime. Mark, you are so funny. I am glad there are people like you to keep people like me laughing. You are right, imbrication is a catch all but the fact is they are thrusted on top of each other. This is why we see Garrison schist ontop of the constitution formation. You told me I should know better than this....so I explained my outlandish comments to what seemed better, yet you continue to challenge each thing I say...so And what is your point about my "cidiot" statement in the past. The kid wrecked my friend's and my summer day. Also based on the comments I heard at Index that day, many other people were completely irritated. Furthermore, I think the Hawks hanging out at the Country were very upset (based on the constant screeching). However, that is done and now it is over. As for your FB refrence. Big deal, I pay him rent to live in his house, which is more or less a storage unit for the grandfather of all us "Cascade Climbers". In the long scheme, my living there has given me the savings to soon buy my own storage unit. I do hate living in Seattle, I think I have made that obvious many times over. So, why don't you fOff. Ps. I forgot you are a viking grad....hahahaha give me a buzz when you can

nah, dots are better. plus, it would be sooo French. kinda slams the door on the whole need for guidebooks...dots r not aid.

So Mark, are you a UW grad or just owner of the UW side of the NWCS tectonic arguement....You state ALL above and now recoil and say "some", kinda like the arguments in the papers from Cowan and Brandon vs Brown et al. The imbricate structures have everything to do with what is currently visible on the surface. Perhaps there is a mentioning of massiveness in the lithological description but that is monor compared to the tectonic evolution in the area. You are right, apples and oranges. Ultimately, the rocks are seriously funked up and typically are not favorable for rock climbing. Yet, I have spyed some stellar looking crack lines along the banks of a few islands during sailing trips. But in all honesty, I do not believe they are worth more than small talk while piloting the sailboat.

here is instructions on how to climb saints. Also, in my experience the saints route is a classic fun castle rock outing. It is typically overlooked for some reason or another. The start is a bit awkward but eases greatly after that. The following pitch or two is typical upper castle wandering around but does more-or-less follow a distinct path. If licheny, you are probably off route. Old gray mare, used to have pins and has seen an upgrade...not sure why...however, the route is high quality as well...neat moves above the small roof start. Continuing the pitch into Crack of Doom is highly recommened and makes COD feel 5.10. Otherwise two pitches of 5.8+ and 5.9 respectively. COD is 5.8+/5.9 if you climb thru the bulge in the correct area...because most people do not climb where the path is easiest it pumps them out quickly. I feel if you trend right it is easier than trending left towards the bolt anchor. If there were colored dots up there then everyone could find the easy way up!

Movie in Japanese but visuals are real neat and if I/someone else posted this little flick already...who cares... bush vs. restofworld Enjoy!

duh, it was the quote of bush sr.

case in point.

Bush is such a fricken idiot....as Nostradamus once penned..."Come the millennium, month 12, In the home of the greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader." or as W's father used to say as well, "what we have, is a NEW world order..." FUCK.

um yes. to the plank you go....

The bolts are there cuz the short rope beckey was aiding on stopped there. Going up blind and stopping to belay at a Mooosh!t stance (when if one looks up and realizes they have the rope stretch to get up to a better stance) further proooves the idiocy in leaving the bolts at all. Fuk it just yank the bolts and put in a espresso stand. Since that is what really is needed up there.... On second thought: When the bolts have been there for as long as they have been, why suddenly are they too old for any further use, knowing the bolts have sufficient gear to back them up...? I think FB should way in on this argument.... considering he put the damn bolts in and last time I checked still running around this globe we call home (@84).

If you allow the broad range of people to post, then egos will flare up and words will be written that will no doubt make someone cry and give you reason to ban them or delete their posts and then what will we accomplish....Nothing. just like all the other threads which deal with similar ethical questions. What I do not understand is the large number of "elder" climbers that insist to "bolt" without regard to ethics. The same ethics which they used to support and practice. Makes no sence unless maybe...yes I got it, perhaps there is something in the drinking water that has altered their perception of reality. The Fluoride?!

that was more of joke you dolt written only to lure you out of your cave. I am well aware of the imbricate thrust sheets (nappes) that make up the San Juan Islands...the islands are not a Mz "flysch" but rather segments of the ocean floor and trenches from long ago (faulted and folded) together. The age of the rocks has been dated to cover most of the Mesozoic and the islands also contain Paleozoic rocks. The incipient metamorphism is of a low grade nature. Honestly, the word fresh was used to indicate the crappy nature and young exposure in regards to the rest of the Cascades. Mark, I have an awesome new tectonic map from Joe Dragovich and Ned Brown that I am sure you would love to see. I could even pdf it to you for some money in exchange...as you know there are no FREE lunches. cheers.

good job. So mr sobo says: Unreal...was not that long ago 250 was the number to remember....exponential growth indeed. sh!t that baby will probably be rich before it gets out of diapirs. lucky bastard.