bwrts

try satellite or Ctong! also good southern exposure.

"you do not need the fingers, when you have the panage(sp?)." Masters of Stone 1, wild Iris or was it Painted Spider at Hueco Tanks...damn I need to go watch the old flicks again...there the best anyways.

I believe you are right. Based on when the route was climbed and the distance between the bolts. The misconseption is the bolts are an anchor cuz they are somewhat close to each other. Yank the bolts and end this blabber. But, really, the bolts should just be yanked without upgrading... modern widgets will keep you safe up there, honestly its not even the crux. Smoot says the crux is fitting more than two people here (if you belay here). Selkirk, I am not saying SCW is not an inexperienced climber attraction...F'n A its the most obviously significant feature and w/outerspace attraction of course people of all egos/experience flock there. However, I would never recommend orbit to a moderate leader before outerspace. Orbit is harder overall and the "old" bolts add to the spice, but if this socalled community of climbers is in agreement, Selkirk, go pull the bolts and put some nice painted ones in for your pleasure. IN the old holes cuz the new bolt will be bigger. Dang, why don't you even put 1/2" bolts in so, the future climbers can forever climb "safely."

I don't smoke. I never assumed you were even capable of drawing a topo. Now go to the Social Security office, pick up your check, and let the kids argue about bolts. Bite: Yeah, right on the crack. so, why do you think I am old? Because I have rock climbed for 15yrs...omfg. perhaps I started at a young age.

just drop them off at my dads office. tia. have a great time on the tickcrag.

long w/ pointy tips and a handle on the other side. the color is blue.

No. "new" is not singles. stay tuned.

Apu's last revenge is good too!

the "new" one in preproduction about seattle.

Selkirk, why don't you just go remove your bolts and chain them together and keep them. You obviously want them real bad cuz they are sooo shitty. I forgot (reminded by above post) that they are not next to each other like a belay. but actually probably were placed for moving upwards. Bolt or not to bolt, the question. A new anchor is not placed, so then if a nonexpecting party goes up the route (thinking there is NO anchor from book updates, sign on the trailhead board, this website, rockclimbing.com, etc) then they will find a natural anchor and belay where comfortable. Nothing changes in the .com world. A new anchor is placed. Pope and selkirk dance together in the streets of Leavenworth singing KumbyaH my lord, Kumby-YaH....peace is restored to the .com world. Rock climbing up on Snow Creek Wall is not connecting the dots nor a roadside crag and do not try and convince me otherwise (let alone the many people who have gone up the route over the years). Furthermore, this route should not be thought as a ideal newbie climb, it is WAAAAY more sustained then its cousin Outerspace and has way more seriousness involvement, approach and routefinding. Obviously, by your soapbox description, you feel that as rock climbers we all need a highway map and the only true way up a cliff is to connect the dots via shiney 3/8" bolt anchors. Try this, next time you go up the Snow Creek Trail look up (around a mile and 1/2--long straight section) from the ditch and read the big sign that says Wilderness. Hard to miss unless your staring at the trail on the way up. Which may explain why you only found micro nut placements around said "shitty" bolts," looking at trail and not surroundings. Frankly, I do not care if you replace the bolts but they better go in the old holes, otherwise you are retrobolting a route that was completely fine the way it is now. Snow creek wall is not metrosexual and do not attempt to make it that way. Edit: rudy give me a break, hobnobs...

Huh? smoke another one girl. I never drew a topo, but I am sure FB drew several 44 years ago (on napkins, etc.)

there is less fracturing/jointing in the wall too

Kick em in the a$s.

Hah! if you want to get laid at pub club, then go to a different chatforum pub club...I figure there is prolly less sausage and more tuna.

Most routes on MEAST WALL are high quality and recommended...typically I was never disappointed with any route I did here. The rock is better quality/colorful and cracks are more pure like tieton.

RAT, hey are you out there? if so, what does the weather look like outside your window? do you think there is any snow in the highcountry? have you seen any ice yet? when is the sun coming back to seattle? are the seahawk going to the big game again this season? why does the traffic suck in seattle? Thanks for the info whenever and if ever you see this post which is now stuck in the matrix of the WWW.ccdotcoM

2006(today) -1962 (FA) ==>??yrs 44yrs old

Selkirk, why are being such an antagonist about a route older than you (assumption)? The route has been climbed hundreds or thousands of times just the way it was after FB et al. aided the climb and then Burgner and Marts freed it in 1966. Are the bolt hangers that sketchy (ie thin metal with cracks in them)????? Why do you care so much? I am being mouthy about this route because during my first attempt at this climb 15yrs ago, my dad went the wrong way up Lost Planet Airmen, took the whipper and came flying down upside down by the bush/giant flake belay above the finger crack. We assessed that he was off route and rapelled to the ground with our tails between are legs. We returned a week or so later with the topo fresh in our heads and I climbed up the ramp past the bush/giant flake belay. I had only been climbing two years (I think) and remember belaying on the O-so scary bolts. The fear was omnipresent yet I managed to bring my dad up and pass on the lead rack. We didn't die, the bolts held and I think I even backed up the bolt anchor with a piece or 2. SO in summary, the route is not a roadside sport climb. It is a large crag 2.5 miles from the trailhead and in the wilderness. It should continue (imHo) reflect the pioneer effort and keep the 1/4 bolts. Really perhaps adding One bolt, will suffice the concern and keep it "really safe." Remember climbing is dangerous and climbers of the old days were/are much bolder and safer than modern climbers.... the unwritten rule was the leader was not to fall cuz the team would die.

Q1- did you get to talk to Jim or Lee? Q2- when are moving? S1- I think the seam we did years ago may not be the Jim/Lee route. I am remembering ending more to the south of the Dolphin....maybe dan remembers better. Need big picture with lines drawn on for refrence to your topo. Please.

Ask rat.

Hell, I will bolt the bitch this november in the rain with a goat as a belay bitch....kidding. How about we leave the damn bolts alone, consult Fred, find out he really doesn't care and then add two new shiny bolts next to the mank (for prosterity). That way all parties are happy. Except maybe pope, as we would be adding holes to the stuart batholith...OMG. cheers.

Yes, both erie and lopez are part of the Fidalgo Complex, however the lithologies of both rocks, I "think" are not the same. My refrence is only at 1:625K so, it is very broad. I have not spent as much time on Lopez as Fidalgo or even San Juan. Look fwd to exploring the island sometime. Mark, you are so funny. I am glad there are people like you to keep people like me laughing. You are right, imbrication is a catch all but the fact is they are thrusted on top of each other. This is why we see Garrison schist ontop of the constitution formation. You told me I should know better than this....so I explained my outlandish comments to what seemed better, yet you continue to challenge each thing I say...so And what is your point about my "cidiot" statement in the past. The kid wrecked my friend's and my summer day. Also based on the comments I heard at Index that day, many other people were completely irritated. Furthermore, I think the Hawks hanging out at the Country were very upset (based on the constant screeching). However, that is done and now it is over. As for your FB refrence. Big deal, I pay him rent to live in his house, which is more or less a storage unit for the grandfather of all us "Cascade Climbers". In the long scheme, my living there has given me the savings to soon buy my own storage unit. I do hate living in Seattle, I think I have made that obvious many times over. So, why don't you fOff. Ps. I forgot you are a viking grad....hahahaha give me a buzz when you can

nah, dots are better. plus, it would be sooo French. kinda slams the door on the whole need for guidebooks...dots r not aid.

So Mark, are you a UW grad or just owner of the UW side of the NWCS tectonic arguement....You state ALL above and now recoil and say "some", kinda like the arguments in the papers from Cowan and Brandon vs Brown et al. The imbricate structures have everything to do with what is currently visible on the surface. Perhaps there is a mentioning of massiveness in the lithological description but that is monor compared to the tectonic evolution in the area. You are right, apples and oranges. Ultimately, the rocks are seriously funked up and typically are not favorable for rock climbing. Yet, I have spyed some stellar looking crack lines along the banks of a few islands during sailing trips. But in all honesty, I do not believe they are worth more than small talk while piloting the sailboat.

here is instructions on how to climb saints. Also, in my experience the saints route is a classic fun castle rock outing. It is typically overlooked for some reason or another. The start is a bit awkward but eases greatly after that. The following pitch or two is typical upper castle wandering around but does more-or-less follow a distinct path. If licheny, you are probably off route. Old gray mare, used to have pins and has seen an upgrade...not sure why...however, the route is high quality as well...neat moves above the small roof start. Continuing the pitch into Crack of Doom is highly recommened and makes COD feel 5.10. Otherwise two pitches of 5.8+ and 5.9 respectively. COD is 5.8+/5.9 if you climb thru the bulge in the correct area...because most people do not climb where the path is easiest it pumps them out quickly. I feel if you trend right it is easier than trending left towards the bolt anchor. If there were colored dots up there then everyone could find the easy way up!