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Does anyone know if this route goes? I'm a little skeptical about Skate Creek Road / NF 52 but it's supposedly about an hour faster than going around...

Go now. Use this.

Careful man. There is a fine line here.

Holy crap, I went skiing at Stevens. SUNSHINE. Who knew that was going to happen?? Quick summit on Big Chief, then excellent tree skiing in the shade with a foot of powder. The slednecks didn't even really get me down. Sunday also was less shitty than I expected.

Don't worry, they line the inside of Coke cans. With bis-a-leaching resins.

LOL...spraying water. If you want to clip a bottle to your harness, why not use a Sigg bottle? It has a special lid just for this. Of course if you don't tighten it you could still drop bombs on RuMRs posse. Yeah... I don't trust that little piece of plastic either. Nylon webbing FTW. Sobo, I am a big fan of tap water.

Serratus Genie. Unfortunately they don't make 'em anymore.

Are we even talking about the same thing, Dustin? That strap is pretty easy to pull off with your hands. I can think of a bunch of ways rock climbing could cut it loose. Just rig up something stronger, it's easy to do.

Drink tap water? Who knows what's in THAT shit! People are chasing some mythical perfect diet and perfect set of habits that will result in zero health problems. It's just thrashing. Something is gonna get you at some point. I don't advocate snorting asbestos for fun. There are things that are genuinely harmful and worth freaking out about, but I'm not convinced yet that this bis-a thing is really one of them. The NYT article I read earlier today pointed out that these resins have been used to line metal cans for the last 20 years and there is no good replacement for them yet. I think we ought to take a deep breath.

I'm actually not totally opposed to that but 1. I think the weather will actually be bad there too, and 2. Kind of thinking about some cardio workout.

Who's been up Colchuck's NBC lately?

Sorry about your lame experience Bug, that guy is obviously a jerk. I also think you're right on the "one bad apple" tip.

I advise you to either have more beers, or fewer beers.

Man! He FINALLY makes my ignore list! I didn't think it was going to happen.

Pope was only trying to save a brother from succumbing to the cheap allure of sport-climbing. Good, he's putting his money where his mouth is. A lot better than most of the sprayers in here.

Let's say you want to do something somewhere near Leavenworth tomorrow. The weather looks way crappy. What do you do? Long unpleasant slogging, frigid cragging, sloppy backcountry skiing, and intense beer drinking are all on the table. I've been trying to think of something to do just to get out and nothing has been grabbing me.

They cost the same amount. And your rope can TOTALLY get wet cragging... 9.8 dry is a slam dunk, the difference in durability between 10.2 and 9.8 is probably not much. That's a good starter package!

I know that my reaction to largely-unsubstantiated-and-speculative hoopla is to throw my gear away and buy new shit.

I think now you are saying something reasonable. I'd be pissed too if I was at a crag and it got swarmed. The group I'm in gets up really early so we can get there first, and we schedule our rock outings for late winter/early spring to try not to be in the way. Even so, if my group was at a crag and you showed up, we'd probably be able to work something out.

I don't know, but I participated in the rescue of a climber with a broken ankle off the seracs at Mount Baker without SAR or Mountain Rescue assistance. What are you really getting at? Self-rescue is extremely difficult in any circumstance, even if you have been exposed to the concepts. Even if you are an expert. I think it's virtually impossible for a small group to rescue anyone over miles of terrain, you always need a lot of people for that. It's the things you can do immediately when an accident occurs in the backcountry, before emergency responders have a chance to show up, that are more likely to make the difference between life and death. I am convinced that a graduate of one of the intermediate courses has a leg up on most self-taught climbers, merely by having spent at least one weekend working on self-rescue techniques. How many of you who have never taken a class have practiced any self-rescue? Maybe I am mistaken but I feel like this is something that is usually overlooked. Basic class graduates... yeah, I don't think they have much knowledge by which to execute a rescue. But this is no worse than a group of friends who picked up FOTH and started figuring it out for themselves. I think this is really just a recurring argument that happens whenever someone mentions a climbing club: anyone who is self-taught or whose buddy was a climber and brought him into the sport wants to chime in and diss the big group. The way you learned might have advantages but it isn't an option for a lot of people. Purely by the numbers it doesn't work out. In a class like this, an 8-student team can learn a lot from 3-4 instructors and come out of the class fairly knowledgable, fairly safe, and ready to continue their climbing education in whatever way they see fit (or quit, which a lot of them do). It works pretty well. There are different ways of doing things than what you have done. I was impressed when I saw Pope in the newbies forum volunteering to help out a beginner. That is constructive; most of this thread is not.

jeebus...maybe i need to start soaking my hands in formaldhyde? tc's the only place i've ever taped and thought it mandatory- layton and i only had enough to do half our hands, and i recall bleeding like a stuck pig only 10 feet off the ground. i am, of course, a cheap hack though and make no claims to master tech-nique! tc's is certainly much grittier and coarse than the basalt of the portland area or the smith gorge. it seemed like god had just gone over all of the basalt blocks wiht a great big sandy paint brush. What he didn't say is that he's never been there.

That is not my point. My point is that they already take fingerprints, the purpose of which is to identify you and assist in prosecuting you if you go on to commit further crimes. But fingerprints are an imperfect means of reaching this goal. DNA is a more powerful tool that helps them reach the same goal. I am wondering what your point is, your dots are all pretty far out of line with each other and I am having trouble connecting them. Are you arguing that fingerprinting was bad in the first place? Have you been concerned that the government might start fingerprinting everybody? That hasn't happened yet. Are you warning us that stuff that isn't currently illegal might become illegal? Do you just want to alert us that we need to keep an eye on our government?

Don't you currently get fingerprinted any time you're arrested?

probably how tall it is.

THIS THREAD BOOOOOOORING