JosephH

I think he's talking about one of Shane's new routes off the start of the trail. Check here: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/washington/beacon_rock/106452015

I've thought about that on several occasions and have the 12" x 1/2" bits to do it but I think they would just keep clogging up. I already feel like a janitor out there without having to carry a plunger or drain snake. Calling for rain in pdx on sunday, but sunny in the Dalles so maybe it will be alright out there.

No Kenny, I'm not going to do the next retrobolting, I'm going to rebolt it and check the pins and make sure either they are solid or replace them with something that is either pin or bolt. It will have the exact same number of fixed protection points it has now, in the same places they're at now. If there are any 'sides' in that rebolting then I can't imagine why, or what the objection could possible be, other than Kevin's complaint it needs more bolts. I have a pretty hard time believing either Farrgo or Eldiente who might actually climb it are going to have any complaints. So if anyone does have a problem with me rebolting Stone Rodeo then speak up an explain exactly and specifically what your objection is. Kenny, why exactly would you have any problem whatsoever with rebolting it? Why do you think anyone would have any problem with it? P.S. I did just go a aid half the thing in a downpour, with water streaming out of the crack. I stopped when I got to the really bad bolt or it would already be done. At this point it doesn't matter how it gets done, just that all the fixed protection on it is solid.

Joseph. Care to comment? I already did, if the dates are correct in Olson's book then Foster did the ffa. And now that pink mentioned free-soloing Jensens, I also recall he all but did that the next day semi-scaring me when I realized he only used like two pieces for the pitch off the actual ridge. In the end does it really matter? What counts is it was an absolutely striking line for Bob and Wayne to have been working and it just happened to fit our roof sensibility at the time. It's stout even as an aid line and was visionary of them as a free one. We way more than likely wouldn't never have gotten on it if the bolt wasn't there; we thought we were doing an established line like any other and in many respects we were.

Wayne, did you or Bob do the retrobolts, or know who did?

Good to hear, that's what I'm doing. When I get done everything that's fixed on the route will be bomb one way or the other.

The trick at YW puddle is to drape the rope in long loops over each side of the outside corner of the ledge to the right of the puddle (as you are facing the anchor). I hope to be out friday afternoon as well and then saturday or sunday.

No, I don't need love - I need less whining and more open days at Beacon.

Yep, stake it all out in a living will and execute a medical power of attorney for each other.

Damn, that's right Steve, I completely forgot, you're going to conjure up a closure law or policy change by wishing it so in group man-hug up on LoLP and cursing all the agency personnel to eternal damnation while you're at it. Good luck with that (oh, and be sure and bring drums for the chanting circle).

Wait a minute - you guys, and Kevin and Jim in particular, have had biannual seizures over the closure like clockwork for the past fourteen years without doing jack about it. I come along, get tired of listening to all the incessant whining and finally make the mistake of looking into it all. And the instant you make that mistake - aside from suddenly being up to your neck in a whole new grand levels of bullshit - you are immediately into the law and the policy that flows from it. Don't like the closure? Want to change or eliminate it? Cool, welcome to federal and Washington state law. And unless I'm way off the mark, it's always better to work with lawyers when you head into that territory if you want better odds of getting stuff done. Last I checked Maggie and Bryan are lawyers and good ones. I find it amazing you guys actually have the audacity to say shit about any of my statements around what can or can't be done about the closure without a) bothering looking into it all yourselves in any realistic, detailed way, b) sitting down and talking with all the agency personnel responsible for implementing and enforcing the policy, and c) using any and all legal or agency resources you know who might actually be able to better understand the relevant laws and could help determine what options are open to climbers. So it's not cool to talk to lawyers we know about the closure law? What are you saying, that it's really just all about the incessant whining and our identity as 'victims' of the closure that's what's important instead of addressing it and getting something done? Or am I just fucking nuts?

It's very rare to see a golden out at Beacon. I suspect the place is just too busy and the Peregrines defend it pretty heavily. Never seen an eagle of any kind on the rock itself. Young bald eagles from the nest in the Hamilton Creek basin come hang out on the towers around the slough out in front of Beacon every year, but not on the rock itself.

Damn, an attempt at humor despite the obvious challenges. Good for you.

Well, if my wife was a lawyer she may not care, but I'd still be getting legal advice on the matter, regardless. If your wife doesn't care then how about Bryan, he's an environmental attorney - though of course he plays for the other team.

Care to tell us what Maggie thinks we should do about the closure?

LOL! Fixed that for you. I think I use to see that guy up at the VA hospital, naked but for wearing a sandwich board with handwritten felt tip exclamations on it. Hey, that's my day job and I think I'm on the verge of getting things turned around up there.

So you've taken up a new sport while raising the kids? WHAT DOES MAGGIE SAY ABOUT THE CLOSURE?

If Kevin were a politician he'd be campaigning with a sign that says "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it any more!" and waving it while standing in the center lane atop the Fremont bridge.

Again, pretty loose with the facts all the way around, Kevin. There is no direct shot into the scrape from above, it's completely protected from heavy thrown debris and tourists throwing light stuff off the trail which can blow into the scrape clearly isn't that significant a threat to birds' breeding success. They've been successful there in years when Big Ledge was covered in glass from broken bottles when checked the day before opening. Every spring the resident Peregrine pair at Beacon compete with outside individuals and pairs to hold onto to their eryie at Beacon. So, regardless of what we do, if Hamilton were a place they wanted to nest they would be competing for it every spring but they don't. And Big Ledge is always their first choice of nest site at Beacon even if they aren't always successful there. But even when they're not, so far they've still been at Beacon somewhere even if we couldn't locate the new nest. Bottom line is they would have to be actively driven off of Beacon to get them to stop breeding there. We get early opens as part of a two-way street of cooperation. Documenting and cleaning out the scrape if necessary at the end of the season is part of that. And that cooperation does and has bought us approximately several months of extra climbing over the past six years. You don't climb there anymore except the odd day once in a blue moon so it's no big deal to you, but every day we open early is to me, so no I won't be stopping it

I wasn't speaking of the Fremont pair in particular but of the effort to introduce and attract Peregrines to breeding boxes placed variously on bridges and buildings in urban settings around the country. High bridges and buildings are places where they don't interact with humans directly in a manner of individual humans deliberately approaching their nests. I suspect some would and some wouldn't. For every anecdotal story you, I and other climbers could come up with relative to seemingly benign climber/Peregrine interactions the biologists can go tit-for-tat with documented incidents of nests being destroyed and eggs and fledges being abandoned. Would love to see any stat on Peregrines v. Redtails. "Shitting exclusively on climbers" - pretty dramatic. A better perspective might be Peregrines nest on cliffs and climbers are the only humans who similarly occupy cliffs and are capable of directly disturbing their nests. I don't in any respect recall saying politics don't enter into the picture - that's specifically the "law and policy" aspects of it. I've counseled just the opposite; I've been suggesting you guys get a clue and a shred of political savvy. Again, no one in a car on a bridge or in a highrise is in a position to directly disturb a Peregrine nest - hence, a closure for the stated purpose of protecting a nest from such a risk is not something any wildlife agency is going to burn political capital for (just like the tourist trail). Unfortunately for us the cliffs we climb are the natural and most productive habitats for Peregrines, so yeah, we're in the crosshairs more than say kayakers. Bummer they don't nest on moutain bike or hiking trails. It's not like we drew a bad draft number and it's some random association of "why me?" - the sad reality is climbers are the only ones capable of threatening and disturbing Peregrine nests, cars on bridges and people in highrises don't - that we climb is why it's us that is singled out. If we didn't climb, or didn't climb cliffs, it wouldn't be us. What you guys CAN'T SEEM TO GET A GRIP ON is perceived unfairness and hypocrisy are completely irrelevant, as are anecdotal stories and personal opinions of climber / Peregrine interactions. I've already publicly stated my personal opinion that we could climb Blownout and everything east of it without causing the Peregrines to fail. But again, my opinion carries as much weight in law as your righteous indignation - none whatsoever. Outside of monitoring for the Peregrines nesting elsewhere or the chicks fledging on such or such a day the only thing that will change the closure is some sort of evidence or argument that a lawyer like Maggie, Bryan, Geoff, or Darryl would go to bat with. No amount of hurt feelings, indignation, unfairness, hypocrisy, stories, or personal opinion (including mine) is going to change the closure. Give me ANYTHING viable which could be used as a basis for proposing a change to the closure and I would be running with it in a heartbeat. And if you have that then you should really be giving it to the AF, lawyers, and agency personnel. In the end, I don't have the time or energy to waste on your hurt feelings around the closure or mine (and I think it sucks as much as any of you), I only care about what will get me more climbing days per year out at Beacon and nothing I've read here or heard so far from you, Jim, Kevin, Andrew, Steve, Kenny or anyone else will deliver that. And so you guys think I'm an asshole and idiot with a weak grip on the 'real facts' - hey totally cool, works for me. Friday night at the pow-wow you'll have at least a couple of lawyers present, how about you all sit down, put your heads together, and show me how the smart guys get it done so I can start getting more climbing in.

Looks like someone ended up perpendicular to the roadway, rolled onto the passenger side and then hood while at the same time rotating until it hit a railing and poles before going very far. Been there, done that (as a passenger once).

I think the difference is that when the decision was made to introduce falcons to urban environments, breeding boxes were placed on tall bridges and building specifically because they were places the Peregrines wouldn't be interacting with humans in any direct way beyond dealing with relatively steady-state visual, auditory and vibration patterns. The introduction decision was also made with the understanding no restrictions of any kind would ever be placed on those buildings or bridges. The program has been successful to a degree, but the successful fledging and survival rate of the urban pairs is lower than that of pairs in natural habitats. Climbers who won't learn the science, law, and policy and refuse to talk to agency personnel don't even make the radar to be considered 'pickens' of any kind. P.S. You are one of the few to actually try and sort things out and talk to agency personnel about the issue, good on you for that.

I'm with you there.

I'll take that as a yes, that it's more a matter of needing more bolts.

Nope. I'm simply a climber trying to get every day of conceivable climbing in I can every year at Beacon and done more to that end than the lot of you put together. Hey, step up if you think you can do any better. Get lawyers, start with your wife, with Bryan, with Geoff, with Daryl, or get LCK to use his influence and position in the WDFW. DO SOMETHING, DO ANYTHING - but stop your incessant wailing and whining. So far I haven't heard a single suggestion from one of you that would stand a remote chance in hell of changing a damn thing. I'm all ears...