JosephH

I would have liked to have spent the entire afternoon with the saga of the beat rope, but managed to tear myself away and go check out Stone Rodeo. Turns out the the bolts on it suck and I didn't much care for even being on second one let alone the prospect of falling on it. So here is the route with the bolts marked in red (with one of the old ones in yellow). The route as is has been bolted and retrobolted, and I'm not going to be adding any bolts to it, but if, like Kevin you have an interest or opinion on the where these bolts should be located that's different than where they are speak up or they're going to be rebolted in place.

So let me get this straight, you're all have your panties in a twist over a missing chunk of beat rope that has been replaced by another chunk of beat rope. And that's what constitutes "sad times" out at Beacon now? Got it, sad, but I've got it. Better keep this one under wraps here on cc.com as if Steve posts this tragedy up on ST he'll be laughed out off the internet with folks archiving his post so it can't be deleted.

I'm not the one drowning in a sea of it, you folks are.

Exactly, what an avalanche of bullshit.

Feel free to point out anytime what I say here isn't exactly aligned with what I do out at Beacon. Out with'em dude (whoever you are), name one...

I'm not 'professing' anything, I'm simply letting you know I didn't do it. And the rest is no 'diatribe', but just a simple statement of opinion. Only Warren was strictly a Valley person - Dean, Kim, and Eugene are born and raised Beacon climbers who would no doubt be laughing their asses off at your little drama. Dean is down at Saturday market, feel free to go get his opinion. Again, cool - take it home and hang it on your wall or weave a rug. Hard to imagine you could get that more completely ass-backwards if you tried, but such is the logic these days.

Wasn't me, or the slathering the LoLP anchor against Jim's wishes. And, call me a kiljoy, but "sad times", realy? seriously? People dying or being injured or dropping their partner on their dog - those are sad times - but the untimely demise of a hank of old rope? If that constitutes 'sad times' then I think you're either losing grip on reality or have a pretty wide drama streak. Having come up in the LNT generation, I have to confess to not really getting the attachment to less-than-historic human detritus that accumulates on stone and tree from our passages over time. I've always thought the emphasis should be on the stone and routes themselves. All my memories and emotional attachments in climbing are of people, lines and moves - not all the ancillary trappings and crap we hang on the rock and trees. The odds are good whoever did it simply thought they were doing everyone a favor taking out the trash, and rightfully so unless thrashed chunks of ropes have now somehow become historic. Sentimental? Ok, sure, fine, take it home, weave a rug, make key fobs or whatever, but short of installing a curio cabinet up on LoLP I fail to see the point of leaving it hanging up there. I'm sure some folks were bummed when Bryan, Ivo and Gave cleaned all the garbage off Zodiac, but then all the Nose and Heart anchors and ledges would also be eyeball deep in crap if it were allowed to sentimentally accumulate up there. Only in an As-The-Bacon-Turns world could this possibly constitute "sad times". As it is, I'm left sitting here trying to imagine just what Warren Harding, Dean Caldwell, Kim Schmitz, or Eugene Dod would make of this tragic whodunit.

Here's some more: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=205347&msg=205782#msg205782

I don't use it since I figured out the dynamic move from the right, but I'm betting the left placement that takes the #10 HB so well would hold no problem.

Or a #10 HB/DMM Offset which fits like a glove.

Yep, pretty hard to be up there no-hands unless you do.

There is pro if you want it up above the bolt at the apex of the triangle. As for the butthole, the 'three point' rule and a gentle touch are the word. I basically don't touch any of those flakes for more than and instant and then just barely. I get up to a standing, no-hand stance up in the butthole in essentially one dynamic move. It goes from the ledge starting off using a low outer right side flake momentarily to lauch the move and a high inner left side flake for just another instant to land it and stabilize. Doing a lot of groping around in the butthole to get up it, particularly using any of the lower left side doesn't seem (to me anyway) like a good idea.

Am I supposed to argue that point? It wasn't my assertion.

I replaced 136 anchor bolts out there and by and large I know bad ones when I see them based on the ones I pulled or by the corrosion in the cross sections of the ones I snapped or sawed off. And the p1 and p2 YW anchor bolts were the worst of the lot that got replaced. As I said earlier Jim's knee blew out when we were lined up to do it, but it was happening last winter as schlepping all that stuff around at the start of the season is just too damn hard. Bummer, but I'm ok with bad noise over the bad bolts. Maybe in some folks' world bolts don't go bad and can't be replaced, but that world isn't out at Beacon or anywhere else in the Gorge or west side of the Cascades.

It's in the perfect spot, what's the problem? Sling it long if you're going to clip it and it isn't an issue unless you're running p1 and p2 together which for the most part sucks from a rope drag regardless.

Yes, the bolts were bad - is there part of that you missed.

And your point?

In that case it would only take me retiring, losing another fifteen pounds, and about eight months of climbing to be a punter.

Not sure what you mean in regard to Dastardly. I put hangers on Andrew's studs at the top and removed Ben's long studs down below, can't think of anything else. Summer Daze was the WSP wanted the anchor off the tree, I don't care if you want to pull it so there is no anchor there, but I just replaced what was there. Restoring the Dods anchor was Jim's idea. RR was only because of the star rating conflict with the runout. As you point out, both of the latter two were removed within days.

Replacing bad bolts has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics or 'laws', whereas retrobolting established routes does. And when you are talking about adding bolts to long established climbs then you are just asking for trouble regardless of what the FA thinks because at that point your 'community' is vested in the climb. No, that is incorrect. Established climbing protocol and procedural rules take precedence over any personal preference. What exactly does that mean? And in regard to which of the above?

Replacing bad bolts has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics or 'laws', whereas retrobolting established routes does. And when you are talking about adding bolts to long established climbs then you are just asking for trouble regardless of what the FA thinks because at that point your 'community' is vested in the climb.

yep

The conversation we're having is that I replaced bad bolts on YW. I did check with Jim who responded that the bolts were good and that they couldn't be replaced even if they were bad because they were in the perfect spot. He was then agreed to go with me, but then his knee gave out. Are you agreeing with him that the bolts were good and even if they weren't they couldn't be replaced? Where's the angst over the person who retro'd the LoLP rap anchor against Jim's explict wishes. Why the angst over Jim wanting to replace the anchor below the tree on Dods?

If you think I'm the only one that would chop a bolt added to YW you are delusional; there are any number of people who would. And have you climbed YW this year? Did replacing those bad bolts change any aspect of the climb for you? So far I haven't heard a single person claim any aspect of the experience of climbing YW has changed.

True enough except it would get pulled in a heartbeat. Totally agree. Well, unless Olson and the 1987 calendar are lying - and regardless of how powerful the Beacon Reality-Distortion Field is these days - facts are facts. Bummer, I know.