olyclimber

It could or should have been any of us. We're all lucky to be here.

nevermind all the tunnels that have already been built and used extensively. oh, and definitely aid. it is well known that aid climbers use way more Mexican drugs.

@glassgowkiss thank you for inspiring such a thought provoking thread. and thanks to all who have contributed.

We added the TR tool as a menu item, but you have to be logged on to use it. This is not a trick to get you to create an account and log on (though we would love you to do so!), but rather an unintended "feature" that we will try to sort out later. For now...thank you Jon for working hard on learning a whole new way of doing things! This is mo'betta, and an awesome 1.0! Thanks letting me jump into the clown car as it rolled downhill with no brakes. There is no other board on the Internet that I'd rather be on.

@Off_White I think that TR is a clear demonstration how some people can view a climb as bold (and these are usually people who view risk as a personal thing). And I also think @JoshK and others who agreed with him were also right and should be thanked for stating their own opinion about if the route should be included in 50 Classic Climbs of North America or not. I totally appreciate their comments in pointing out the objective danger of that climb. I always appreciate folks like @lunger and @rat who go out and climb something with high objective danger...if they share their TR, they are always honest about recommending it or not. Here is an excerpt from their Hozomeen climb:

I get it, you have your own narrow version definition of the word or you are choosing to only see it one way in this particular way. I'm talking about concern as in caring for someone else's well being regardless of how they got there. We might as well be speaking a different language. I'll just leave it at this, and I don't believe there is more fruit in this conversation for me: I respect that you have a point of view about this. Good luck with your point of view.

No, you don't get to decide when "concern" is properly used or not according to your own arbitrary definitions. Everyone has the right to be concerned in this case, and in every case when someone goes missing. Do you not have concern when someone suicidal goes missing? Concern can exist regardless of "why". Do you want some committee reviewing all risks taken and when someone should get accolades or be shunned as suicidal daredevil? I agree with Jay, it must be the Eastern European mentality you carry with you that causes you to ceaseless argue a strange point of view to us Westerners. I think your personal assessment that someone may be taking foolish risks and are receiving applause for something they shouldn't is a valid personal view point. But that is all it is, a personally held view point. It is a measure that you've set for yourself about how much risk is too much. And I support you in telling people about it and let them know that you think they are crossing the line you have set....having "concern" if you will. But it doesn't mean everyone (or even anyone) will agree with you.

Update 3/12/2018Juneau Mountain Rescue was able to fly with the Alaska Army National Guard today. However, the helicopter and crew were only able to briefly search the Mendenhall Towers before weather limited visibility and forced the crew to return to base. The helicopter was then grounded again for the remainder of the day due to foul weather. The Alaska Army National Guard flight crew and Juneau Mountain Rescue are prepared to again resume operations at the first available weather window tomorrow (3/13), and look forward to a more promising forecast.

I don't think "surprise" is the feeling or emotion anyone has here. In fact..."surprise" isn't even in the lexicon of the event. I don't see anyone here or even other sites who are concerned about "surprise". I see concern. I see sadness. I see hope, but it fades with each passing day. I understand your lack of interest of extremely dangerous things done untethered. You aren't alone there.

This is the last update from the page Off mentions above: -- Update 3/11/2018 --- Juneau Mountain Rescue was able to fly with the Alaska Army National Guard today. The helicopter and crew searched the Mendenhall Glacier for any sign of travel, and searched several possible descent routes on the South side of the Mendenhall Towers. Weather conditions deteriorated and the flight returned to base after 2 hours of searching. The helicopter was then grounded for the remainder of the day due to severe wind shear and winter weather conditions on the ice field. The Alaska Army National Guard flight crew and Juneau Mountain Rescue are prepared to resume air operations at the first available weather window tomorrow morning (3/12).

@glassgowkiss I'm splitting your topic off from the other thread because I think for now we need to keep that one focused on helping people get through this time. However, no one here is saying that this isn't at time for this discussion, so I don't think your comparison to congressmen/women in the pockets of the NRA ducking the gun discussion applies. In this case, and others on the board, I think its healthy to have a separate thread for to share information among friends and family of the parties at hand and keep the discussion clear of assignment of blame or fault. It can even help people cope with grief, which it hopefully won't be necessary in this case. Again, that isn't to say it can't occur here, or that it can't happen concurrently. Obviously there is huge emotional power in an ongoing event, but I think its more about communicating that thought objectively if there is an overarching issue or concern that applies to more than the particular incident in hand. The issue can be discussed in general terms, without becoming a blame game or a "told you so" session. When people take big risks, like soloing really hard/sketchy stuff, and they succeed it is the climbing communities normal reaction to applaud them for that effort, even if it was way above their personal risk acceptance. Lets face it, climbing grades, at least for traditional and alpine climbing could never rise without the acceptance of huge risk of the individuals pushing the boundaries of what is possible. And when and if they get the chop, I personally don't see a problem mourning for them. They were my friends, why should I not? There are a million ways you could choose to spend your life. You can rot behind a desk your whole, was your life more fulfilling? I personally find inspiration in folks who push the boundaries, even if I don't. And the dangers aren't just because of the risk associated with climbing hard, who knows when that loose block on some dog route is going to choose to give in to gravity and take you with it? Anyway, I appreciate your point of view, and by all means anyone who wants to join into this discussion, join in here. But lets leave the other thread clear of this type of talk out of respect for not only Marc and Ryan, but also all their friends and family. Thank you.

More info, but no good news yet https://www.outsideonline.com/2287661/leclerc-missing

live frogs at the edge of the frogs living in the street said: "you here too dangerous to live here with me now!" Side of the road the frog said: "I have got used to not bother moving." A few days later , Tanabe frog street to visit the frog, they found the car he had been crushed to death, dead in the street violence. Hands the fate of the original method is very simple, lazy away from it.

Wang Mu-sheng 16 years old, had tried to borrow money to make money for the journey to the village where, like out of this village, nook, to make a living in big cities.However, the fact that he is just fantastic, because the village there are fundamentally no money to be borrowed.Perhaps, if his parents still, then perhaps something can scrape together money for the journey to find ways to Pinlelaoming to him, let him out of this nook village to big cities in the popular hot drink.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/09/bitcoin-mining-energy-prices-smalltown-feature-217230 broken. devolution. are we not men?

I would like to watch your article in my entire life. this article conceives outline novel, the topic has the mental strategy only, the paragraph is clear, details , fall the rise and fall, the main line is clear, fascinating, mild the extraordinary literature from bottom inside, is witty it may be said, a classic, is a model that my generation should the study.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2018/03/08/search-and-rescue-underway-for-2-men-on-juneaus-mendenhall-ice-field/ Not the news I wanted to read this morning. Hoping for the best possible outcome.

those are my goats. you're getting them.

Another pair: these ones are La Sportivas size 42 1/2. $15 and they are yours. Pick up in West Seattle.

I've been just as scared of falling on low angle slab as vertical or overhanging. in fact, i think more so. i mean all three could be fatal, the last two just get it over quicker.

Hi and welcome Kiira! Did you have something in mind immediately? Baker, Adams, Rainier? Someone tie in with her and help her get ready for whatever!

does anyone know when the last time Dru actually said or shared something constructive on here?

no topo but here is a description: Flyboys 18 Pitch 5.9+Parking is at the pull off for the swimming hole and parking for Prime Rib and Restless Natives. Walk 200 feet back down the road to the east, the trail will be visible on the opposite side of the road. Follow the trail up into the woods. Continue on the trail through the boulder field until you come to a Y in the trail. To the right takes you to Restless Natives and to the left will take you to Flyboys. Follow the trail to the gully where cairns take you up the gully and exit right at the largest cairn .The start of the climb is next to the tall dead tree. The hike should take about 30 minutes. The route is designed both as a walk off or a separate rap that parallels the climb. Rappel stations are visible either on the way up or when rappelling down. Belay stations have 3 bolts at the top of all pitches. Rappel stations have three bolts and two chains. Do not confuse the two. If you are climbing the route a 60 meter rope and 16 draws will suffice. At the top of the route follow the cairns to the top of the trail where it joins the walk off trail of Prime Rib. It is about 20 to 30 minutes back to the road. If you intend to rap the route a 60 meter rope with knots in the ends will deliver you to back down to the base of the route. BE ADVISED that all 60 meter raps are rope stretchers. A 70 meter rope is advisable for safer rappels. Do not take this climb lightly. This is an alpine sport route. Although all pitches are bolted this is a long and challenging route. Enjoy and please be safe!1) 5.9 9 bolts From the large snag route starts 40 feet to the right in a right facing corner. Thin face crux up high. 2) 5.6 8 bolts Easy ramp to 15 foot block, mantle onto slab and continue to chains 3) 5.8 10 bolts Steep face to staircase leading to exposed belay. 4) 5.9 11 bolts Traverse left into intricate face moves followed by sustained face climbing. 5) 5.6 5 bolts When second arrives move belay 4 feet towards gully. Extend 3rd bolt with runner to avoid rope drag. Continue past rappel anchor to base of pitch 66) 5.8+ 9 bolts Tricky bulge leads to excellent arête climbing. Walk 40 meters south to base of wall to start next pitch 7) 5.9+ 8 bolts Stemming corner leads to steep and wild face moves into crack. 8) 5.8+ 16 bolts Sustained enjoyable climbing leads to large ledge with cairn and 50 meter walk to south to start next pitch. 9) 5.9 15 bolts Perfect pocket pitch. Scramble up and to the right of flag tree for next pitch. 10) 5.9+ 10 bolts Over hanging jugs in broken flakes leads to expose belay. 11) 5.7 14 bolts Diagonal face leads to clean slab. Walk past trees to south 50 yards to start of pitch 12. 12) 5.7 9 bolts Sustained moderate climbing through corners and overlaps.13) 5.8 14 bolts Continue climbing through corners and overlaps. 14) 5.9+ 9 bolts Stay left on arête to short face followed by traversing flake into squeeze chimney. 15) 5.4 6 bolts Follow bolts through easy slab trending left to stance above gully. 16) 5.8 7 bolts Step across abyss to exposed arête and jug ladder. Scramble 3rd class past lone pine tree to start of 17. 17) 5.7 10 bolts Boulder start leads to step face trending right.18) 5.9+ 10 bolts 3 consecutive 5.9+ bouldery problems lead to exposed finish.