dmuja

One citizen - one vote? See, Florida vote 2000, Ohio vote 2004. Christian leaders get access to people in power -the prez for instance- like very few other groups do. Liberal is now a dirty word thanks to His holiness Rush and the "liberal media". Commies get on the watch list and are murdered if they get loud enough - re Carolina shotgun attack on a commie rally some years ago. Im not a commie btw, prolly more socialist/anarchist leaning. Atheists are looked at with disdain socially and are often ostracized if they speak up they way Christians so often feel the need to do. Its much more accepted to say that you "are into sprituality" bla, puke.. Personally, I like Jeebus the man, going just off of his legend. Seems like he would endorse Obama and kick a few proselytizing snake oil salesman's asses if he were around today. He'd no doubt be a socialist and strong environmentalist as well. Gee, I might be a Christian after all! Although probably not the kind that Vertical H would accept. The posters claiming that the "non-believers" are being intolerant are missing the point. No one should tolerate intentional ignorance, yet that is exactly what you get when you encounter a preachy fundamentalist with a superiority complex - even if he is "just here to help". Their mindset is a disaster for societies as history can so often attest to- and is a potential disaster in the mountains as well imo. Wanna impress me that you have the "righteous path" LIVE IT! Shut the hell up and live youre path, be an example as a human being. That is what counts, not some stupid mission you're on. Be a light unto...

The "climbers on crusade" (according th VH) or whatever claim to want to just meet other climbers, hang out, help out bla bla.. yet all the while "KNOWING" that they have the only key to "salvation". With that kind of judgmental attitude already embedded in their little minds how would this be a basis for any kind of honest, open or even "casual" meeting? Almost everything VH has said in his groups defense contradicts their own website. And Im not so sure that such a deeply held delusion as his/theirs does not in fact pose a danger in a mountaineering environment - "the forecast says no go, but I have heard the voice of the lord..." Joseph,right on! What we have here, (to borrow a phrase) are wolves in sheep's garb. It really is just what the world doesn't need more of, shortsighted, preachy, condescending arrogance all rapped up in a nice package of smiles and deception.

G, Mint works well. Mint leaves etc..

The media never distorts anything right? They would never do anything just to sell more papers would they? Here's the headline "The Pope condemns the climate change prophets of doom" link Only thing is, it's BS! Personally, i don't know any "profits of doom", but I do know some folk who are actually concerned about our (human) impact on our environment. And when I read the message that the "headline" is based on, it sounds like the Pope (ok, the other Pope) is concerned with the environment as well. Mabey Im missing something though so please correct me... pertinent section of his message below: "The family, the human community and the environment 7. The family needs a home, a fit environment in which to develop its proper relationships. For the human family, this home is the earth, the environment that God the Creator has given us to inhabit with creativity and responsibility. We need to care for the environment: it has been entrusted to men and women to be protected and cultivated with responsible freedom, with the good of all as a constant guiding criterion. Human beings, obviously, are of supreme worth vis-à-vis creation as a whole. Respecting the environment does not mean considering material or animal nature more important than man. Rather, it means not selfishly considering nature to be at the complete disposal of our own interests, for future generations also have the right to reap its benefits and to exhibit towards nature the same responsible freedom that we claim for ourselves. Nor must we overlook the poor, who are excluded in many cases from the goods of creation destined for all. Humanity today is rightly concerned about the ecological balance of tomorrow. It is important for assessments in this regard to be carried out prudently, in dialogue with experts and people of wisdom, uninhibited by ideological pressure to draw hasty conclusions, and above all with the aim of reaching agreement on a model of sustainable development capable of ensuring the well-being of all while respecting environmental balances. If the protection of the environment involves costs, they should be justly distributed, taking due account of the different levels of development of various countries and the need for solidarity with future generations. Prudence does not mean failing to accept responsibilities and postponing decisions; it means being committed to making joint decisions after pondering responsibly the road to be taken, decisions aimed at strengthening that covenant between human beings and the environment, which should mirror the creative love of God, from whom we come and towards whom we are journeying. 8. In this regard, it is essential to “sense” that the earth is “our common home” and, in our stewardship and service to all, to choose the path of dialogue rather than the path of unilateral decisions. Further international agencies may need to be established in order to confront together the stewardship of this “home” of ours; more important, however, is the need for ever greater conviction about the need for responsible cooperation. The problems looming on the horizon are complex and time is short. In order to face this situation effectively, there is a need to act in harmony. One area where there is a particular need to intensify dialogue between nations is that of the stewardship of the earth's energy resources. The technologically advanced countries are facing two pressing needs in this regard: on the one hand, to reassess the high levels of consumption due to the present model of development, and on the other hand to invest sufficient resources in the search for alternative sources of energy and for greater energy efficiency. The emerging counties are hungry for energy, but at times this hunger is met in a way harmful to poor countries which, due to their insufficient infrastructures, including their technological infrastructures, are forced to undersell the energy resources they do possess. At times, their very political freedom is compromised by forms of protectorate or, in any case, by forms of conditioning which appear clearly humiliating." So I may end up disagreeing with the Pope on a lot of things (being rather atheistic myself) but in this particular message I see nothing about his "condemning the climate change prophets of doom". According the news source ..he believes the case against global warming to be over-hyped. Just where the fuck does he come out and say that???

I love B O Barack Obama seems to be somewhat of an environmentalist as well - that's cool. I foresee a golden age of bliss n happiness for all if he gets elected. He will be a world leader and take us to Shangri la. So when the time comes, VOTE FOR HIM BYOTCH'S OR I WILL KILL YOU!!! a few links I found in a whole 30 seconds of searching--> http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Energy_+_Oil.htm http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2006/03/21/roberts/ http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2004/08/04/griscom-obama/ http://obama.senate.gov/issues/environment/

CBS, did you set the f**kin "easy" route too? NTM, as far as I guessed, they were keeping the ropes in the closet and you need to get one and put it up your self and then return it to the desk. I thought it was done that way so they could keep track of ropes that may have been cut from the tools. Not sure, next time I go i'll clarify though.

Re: PTFE "Teflon" If you overheat PTFE the gases are toxic. Also, Perfluorooctanic acid "PFOA" is used in making teflon for pans and is a "potential carcinogen." And, research from Johns Hopkins Hospital has shown that PFOA is in the umbilical cord blood of 99 percent of newborn babies. Of coarse its just my opine, but Id venture to say that there is no such thing as a plastic container of any kind that does not leach something into what it is containing. Thats not a reason to panic, just cause for informing oneself and thus making informed choices. How often would you really require the use of a Lexan bottle anyway? Maybe glass is a good substitute for mixing/storing things in around the home. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/07/earlyshow/health/health_news/main1289747.shtml http://www.townsendletter.com/June2006/healthrisk0606.htm

b206, no need to flame \/

If someone needs a belayer on weekends or some evenings for dry tool practice at Stone G. I can go. You have to be able to lead it though to get a top rope up - Im not there yet as even the "easy" route is not so easy imo. btw - thanks much goes to the 2 experienced guys for setting up the rope for us on Saturday.

But in case you think that ridding yourself of nalgene bottles will save you completely from leached contaminates (Im not saying don't switch btw), just consider how often plastics and other untested synthetics may be in contact with your food supply via containers like; blenders, food processors, coated pots&pans, plates, bowls, plastic wear forks/spoons etc, spatulas, ladles, tupperwear type containers, plastic packaging of all kinds (if only in transporting it). And although the plastic types are different, store bought bottled water probably is leaching some other toxins as well. Then there's your tap water possibly flowing thru PVC piping at least at some point, and what are water reservoirs sometimes lined with? It goes on and on. Because we like convenience so much, our lives have become synthetic to a large degree and no doubt there is a price to pay fer dat.

just to continue the thread drift.. Ive met some anorexic boulderers who crank like da shit but if they ever tried to lift a weight their arms would break, if you got them on Rainier in the winter they would freeze to death. Sometimes how hard you climb can even come down to who you have -or choose to have- fr partners. "Climbing" can mean different things to different people. We think of our own experience of it as the "standard" example. I love to train, but I like to climb. This being the case, I don't climb as much as some here do and therefore I have to train or I will not be able to do what I like to do at all. As for Crossfit, it sounds like it works very well for what it is designed for, overall fitness on a higher level than what is commonly thought of as fit. In that way I can see how it would be adaptable to almost any sport/challange around. The whole social thing and the expense is not for me though - I relate to the world only thru teh interweb.

Thanks Mythosgrl Though this is true and ideal, its still better to do them on the same day then not doing one or the other at all. Best to do strength first then cardio second btw if thats your only option. The only reason I mentioned this is because a lot of "facts" have little or no context behind them and they often get overblown in importance because of this. Kind of like "eating fish". Fish are often somewhat contaminated with man made toxins, but still its better to include fish in your diet than not to - at least for now.

Arrrrg! I can't let this go by... Don't mistake muscle tone for "bulk". Often it happens that you start to get toned but don't lose the weight like you thought, you then convince yourself that your new found muscle density is making you massive - its not. Its pretty hard especially for a female to get "too bulky". Chances are that its not "bulk", but flab, fat and even inflexibility that is the issue -particularly for a climber. If working out is making you (or parts of you) feel "too large" then a dietary adjustment might be needed in addition to a flexibility routine. Cutting carbohydrate percentages vis a vis protein (maybe even cutting overall calories a bit) and eating smaller meals but more often can help. The people I have known who desired an increase in mass did it by eating like pigs, thousands and thousands of calories a day, steaks by the pound, whatever they could eat they would -IN ADDITION to extremely intense strength training. Just for general info, The "bulkiness" thing should never be an excuse to avoid strength building type training. Manage any "mass" issues you have mainly with diet, and never sacrifice being strong in favor of being thin -imo. you know, Im juss sayin...

Thanks for the pics. Did you do any compression tests? Get anything to fail?

I thought a little free verse was in order Ode to the winter soloist He once said School me, tool me rip me up and abuse me but please little mountain don't try to fool me you can't be that hard you ain't even that tall I hiked "alone?" you five times FIVE TIMES! in the sun Im ready for your winter your summers are so much fun I know Ive thought of everything these warnings I think they're just a bit over done So they come from afar their ego's so large you've thought of everything now youre ready to take charge But you may be surprised by what you don't know for the mountain is a different place in the season of snow the days are shorter the snow is deeper the avy risk is higher the temps are colder youre moving a lot slower the wind much stronger the storms last longer your pack is heavier you have to work a lot harder and because of all the rest of it youre off youre game a bit you forget to eat and drink enough even "best laid plans" now seem off-the-cuff So youre all alone when the shit hits the fan gear gets dropped or blown away Jee, I didn't think of that...man! help is just a week away though ONLY A WEEK! its such a long, long, long way to go one small problem though everything you have is soaked everything you got is frozen you gotta get down now! from the route youve chosen but everywhere you look up is down, day is night all of it everywhere nothing but white and soon you're sister's is on the phone sayin "Now why don't he write?"

Do this instead: see link > http://www.mountainguides.com/rnr-winter.shtml -- A week of climbable weather at that time of year might be overly optimistic at best. You should really have a good deal of avy education and or experience and be dialed in on that at the very least. Bad weather nav skills might be essential as well. Gibralter ledges is a standard winter route I hear, but not the only one. Good luck. PS- What do ya want to be in your next life?

You may fax applications to 801-365-5524, email to people@bdel.com, apply in person or by posted mail to: Human Resources Black Diamond Equipment, Ltd. 2084 East 3900 South Salt Lake City, Utah 84124 --- Pardon me if thats already yr plan. You could ask if Todd Miller works there. He's a good climber who also went that way from Seattle. Will miss the fitness advice for sure - hope you continue that once in a while. Good luck and just have fun. D

Anyway, to finish it, for what its worth.. JayB Im not so concerned about "maximum" strength gains. The vast majority of people would do well just getting to plain old "strength gains". Of coarse, I have my preferences. As for grip specifics, I do the forearm barbell curl (not just finger curl) as I mentioned @ around 120 lbs (give 'r take) X 4 to 5 sets, X 2-3 days a week. Between those curl sets I do sets of x50 hand grippers. Often, Ill throw my towel around the weight station high bar, grab the towel and do 'bent arm hangs' and pull ups with the towel. And when I do push ups Ill do fingertips for half of the 4 sets X 50 reps. Again, Im trying to not only get stronger here, but feel or rather "wallow in" the lactic burn so that I don't feel it when I climb. Anyway if you really want an answer regarding overall strength training we can do a PM exchange, let me know. D

Dewdget, You're too legit to quit. I apologize if I came off as arrogant. Tis been my "vast experience" that most people (climbers included) know shockingly little about strength training - even what you or I would consider the most basic approach/strategy/technique to getting stronger. In fact, id say most "certified trainers" are probably worthless (unless they are 1.reputable 2.pertinent degree holding 3.independent). At the fitness gym I watch people "lifting" month after month and beyond with utterly no strength or muscle gain. I also watch them get hurt and drop out like flies. And then there are the numerous folks who just stay away from weights altogether because they scare them or who are simply clueless about how to even start. Even on this board some time ago there was a comment to the effect of "what does lifting weights have to do with climbing anyhow?" So maybe I have a little attitude about the topic - sorry. Anyway, the "pump explanation" may have came off as insulting to you but it was probably meant for novice strength trainers. Ive had climbers at the climbing gym tell me they "didn't want to get pumped" when what they were doing was TRAINING to climb harder! You also hear people (and "experts"?) say they are afraid of "getting too bulky" so they forgo any kind of strength training what so ever. Its all so ridiculous. What youre talking about as a difference in training approaches between body builders and "weight lifters" is some thing that really only comes into play far down the line and at a rather elite level. It also involves rest and nutrition strategies as well as the unfortunate aspect of steroids - you don't get far in competitive body building without them btw (so called "natural" compitions aside). Most people will stop training long before they reach this level either due to their being satisfied with their goals or more and most commonly because they have injured themselves. Anyway, I stand by what I said earlier (if not the manner..). And, the biggest concerns most climbers should have in starting a strength building program should be avoiding injury and getting enough muscle rest. If you can accomplish that much you will see results in your performance even if it just means getting "the pump" in order to avoid "the pump" while on route. D

Yeah but ur nutz are shrinking

The Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center is planning to begin regular operations on Tuesday 27 November. http://www.nwac.us/products/SABSEA'>http://www.nwac.us/products/SABSEA http://www.nwac.us/ http://www.avalanchenw.org/

RE: lactic acid burn and barbell curls If you are doing it to failure (RM = Rep Max, ie, you can't do any more), and doing multiple sets with short rests, and you're not cheating on the intensity, (ie, speed and correct form), you not only will be training for strength, endurance, AND power, simultaneously, but you will feel the pump as well. And this necessarily will push up your lactic acid threshold or at the very least build you a tolerance for pain in addition to making you stronger. You can argue about it if you want but after a set or 3 -even at high weight/low RepMax if thats your cup of tea- it will be the "pump" that brings you to failure or RM. After lifting/ training for more than 30 years I can tell you that some of this stuff is silly nonsensical bs in the real world that doesnt apply to actual performance. You want to get stronger? have more power? more endurance? Then lift heavy, lift fast/intense, and lift as many reps as it takes to get you to failure (and yes it will produce the "burn" or "pump") its as simple as that. Just choose a weight that both tests you and yet does not get you injured - thats the big real world task and balancing act that any kind of "strength trainer" needs to accomplish. Few do though, very few. BTW, I completely disagree that body builders arnt strength trainers! They use strength to help get them to their goals as do climbers as do football players as do any number of other athletes.

The "pump" explained: Wnen one says "pump" in the context of working out in a fitness gym or weight lifting etc ("I am going to pump you up"...), its not exactly the same meaning as meant in a climbing context. In climbing, a "pump" is bad. Ie, "Belayer Dude, Im all pumped out and I will now fall in a generally downward direction. Would you please provide a catch for me?" etc... In a gym while lifting weights it is a good thing to achieve "the pump". Ie "Dude, push it until it burns" (the burn = the pump). This is a good thing because you are pushing back your lactate threshold and lactic acid in your arms (a by product of intense anaerobic exercise) is what causes you to fall off of hard routes when you get "all pumped out". So, when training, "the pump" is good to feel, but when climbing, "the pump" is scary shit. Also, body builders like to get "pumped" bercause they look all freakish and musclely an shit. What they're talking about is mainly blood volume/flow however.

I don't use finger boards precisely BECAUSE its so close to hard climbing. Im thinking you may as well just climb. Also because to much of the same exercise often results in over use injuries (as my finger joints can attest to). Its just my own preference, but for variety and holistic muscle tendon development I use the grippers and weights. On rare occasions I'll hang from a board at the gym usually just to try it or to warm up. If your goal is "five extreme" though Im sure a campus/hang/finger board should be in your plan.

Or you could avoid being detained at the border by going here. Pro Mountain Sports, in the U district. Nothing online, but they had some good ones when I was last there. Worth a visit anyway.