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Nah, We could just get them rigged to recieve the GPS track from our shoe. That way it shocks us when we get off route. The regulators could then predecide wht was best for us and would could all do the cattle routes together. The good part is we could all skip carrying a head lamp and the weight would balance out. You just bounce from shock to shock along a dark corridor. baa

I've not noticed the wiggle. However the one set of boards that I have 404's on are the ones that get used for approach ski's and I have never approached without out also wearing climbing boots. When you are not wearing enough boot weather or not they wiggle is the bottom of the list. I still like the versitility of wearing whatever I want for boots.

Anybody taking bets on if our man Dan is going to buy a pair. Do they come in dog sizes too?

Sure Kat we go out in groups too. Carefull though, look for the small groups. As the groups get larger they turn into a PubClub or our annual patries of Rope Up, Tuft love, and there's even a Ski Fest plus a couple large picnics each year. Check out the events forum for reports of how these outings end up. All kidding aside you have a valid concern and I'm sure you can come up with small groups to join.

An "ex" is a has been- A "spurt" is a drip under pressure I'll leave the rest up to you.

I'm not sure that Fred Shits and giggles. At least not at the same time.

One of the challenges with cells is that the 911 folk have no idea where the caller actually is. It has been federally required that all new phones be GPS enabled. Most of them do not actually have GPS capability but they do have an antennae that picks up the signal. This is then retransmit in the raw state to the emergency operator. Some of the newer phones with higher computing capability also have a crude GPS map that allows them to at least tell you Long./Lat. It is a personal comfort concession that these "big brother" phones only are required to talk to 911 operators.

[quote=Zeta Male Will an analog transmission send GPS info? Yes, in theory. An analog call can transmit the GPS data. However that is only if the phone is analog capable and GPS enabled. Very few of them are at this time. Also analog signals are sort of a last resort for phones. Once you are analog it is questionable if the call will make it at all. But definatley worth trying.

The "ping" is less accurate than the GPS info. In a twist of regulations if the call goes throgh a 911 operator they can have the phone transmit the GPS data it is currently receiving. If the call is not through the 911 operator it takes a court approval to get it or the phone operator needs to activley permit other users to access it. In either case the GPS data gives an accurate location measured external to the current challenge. A ping is just a handshake between devices but the cell company reads the bearing that the answer arrives from relative to the tower. Like other navigation technigues each tower gives a bearing the more towers that give info the smaller the area of intersection is.

Kit, If you could swing it I would urge that you make a treat to yourself (or have the hubby get you another one) of climbing now. It is a common misperception that you need to be fit to climb. Go do a little, meet some folks and have fun. At the entry level you will be at fitness is really not required. Once you start you will find your type of climbing and develop your own goals. The fitness will follow. Just don't put off the dream "until I am ready." Part of climbing is realizing the joy of living with no regrets. As others have already posted get some good info and hook up with some good mentors. There is quite a bit of learning but those leaders can help CYA while you catch the dream.

If you don't find a place on this board try couchsurfing. I did a road trip recently using there services and had a great time. sort of a "turn about is fair play" arrangment.

This is true. But SOP inbounds is not the same as SOP when not. If there was a callout for a search on Mt Adams of an overdue climber. Searching for Avy beacon would not be on the top of the list. My point is that if the SAR crew knew that the person had and used one I'd bet they wouldn't mind carrying one along to help in the search.

I have never tried climbing with a beacon. I know of a some backcountry types that even when solo carry and use a beacon just in case location or search is required. It would work for snow cave location especially if the inhabitants were incapacitated. I think for that scenario the important part would be that the SAR team knew to take recievers. Unless it is an avy most folk I know don't look for beacons. Good question though.

I don't know Roflcopters are nice, but blogs don't have Long live the snaffle.

Picked this off another well known thread. I was just recalling our little online party when CC.com first broke 100 readers online at the same time. Here we are at easy 3x that. Props to Timmay and the rest of the "staff" here. Did you ever see this board as such a valuable blog? Of course it is nice that so many have cleaned up and are acting presentable for all of our guests but I almost miss some of the poops out there. Here's to ya

Tink, and whoever is out there looking. Reudis answer is spot on about the warmth of a cave. Also consider that the wind doesn't blow inside either. All that wind chill we talk about is minimal in a cave. There's another good reason to keep up hope.

Phil, there are many things that impact your question. I am assuming that you are one of the many that are currently visiting due to the drama at My Hood. Griz is exactly right about climbing with the extra gear. Here are a few thoughts that may help. It has been worth your time to carry that extra stuff in your truck as you seem to use it. I do the same. If I have to have more space on my truck I usually drop the stuff I won't need. As a climber when I am going to be where I may encounter others that need help I often carry items I would find usefull. If I won't need it stays home. Lets think of a trip, If it is just me and a partner and both of us are very experienced and there will almost certainly be no one else, we adapt our gear accordingly. Especially as weight is very important and questionable value impacts decisions as to what a person carries. It appears from the notes and lists and other clues that the three on Mt Hood very carefully thought out what to take and where to go. It looks to me like they did what most of use would have done. Sometimes life is a bitch. All climbers can relate to that which is why there is so positve energy from this board focused on them. In the past couple days a MLU would probably not have been of use as the searchers could not have reached them anyway. Maybe now that they can it would. We just don't know.

Hey!!! I have a marshmallow rifle. Those thngs are really important to have. Especially when there's lots of cars near your campsite that attackers can hide behind.

If you are primarily looking at cell for backcountry saftey it is not so good. As I mentioned before there are some solutions that are on the boards. Some of which I am involved in but still preproduction so not much info to share. Even if these come to pass it will be one more piece of gear to carry just in case. Give it a while and maybe it will be worth rethinking

Oh don't worry. The phones are going to get better in the mountains. You just need to remember one secret. Only climb in ski areas and along highway corridors. money runs it all sometimes.

It would be nice to know a little more about what you do or are wanting to get in to. I have a family member that lives in Omak. She does well but claims that is because she is a doctor and the primary occupations of the Omak valley is babies and Meth.

Hey CBS, I know that you are looking for ultralight draws. One thought that comes to mind that may or may not apply. What are your intentions with them? You've got a fair amount of experience on the rock. If you anticipate a wondering route or such you may find that the extra weight of a few DMM rollers is worth it. Often I think it is the 15 ounces of rope drag that slows me down more than the 15 grams of biner. Just a quick note for consideration.

ericb, I have a reasonable handle on it. Yes, what you were told is pretty good. All the facts are there although some of them are a little mixed. The end assumption is still valid. In the old days (if you remember bag phones) the analog transmitters were fairly powerful, sometimes up to three watts. This gave them a good range but, due to saftey concerns the antenna was purposefully not at your head. This is for comparisson more power than a FRS walkie talkie but less than a licensed marine VHF. In those days towers only need to be on a 15 mile grid to achieve perfect coverage as the high powers allowed for reliable coverage of sometimes 100s of square miles per tower depending on terrain. The drawback is that the airwaves were really polluted and cross talk is ineveitable between freguencys. As cells took off a solution was needed. Enter digital signals. More data (initially just voice on digi signal but data is data so really whatever) and closer controlled frequencys means we can drop powers. Also the prolifferation of phones made it reasonable (read profitable)to add more towers. A smaller grid means once again lower power. In urban settings now the grid can be often down to 1 mile and each tower only has to deal with 3-5 sq miles of terrain. Where we are at now is that many of the new digital phones have only 0.1 watt transmit in fact some of the the towers themselves are at a lower transmit power than the old school bag phones. This makes all the RF energy naysayers much happier and for the most part is cool as most cell use is close to a tower. Now for the backcountry person you are exactly right. The phones can't reach the towers which operate at lower power. It is also, to tie into the current challenge on Hood, false hope. When a company "pings" a phone they can tell the reply came from a relative bearing at which tower. In urban settings with the small grid. It is very accurate due to the size of the partitions. Also that sometime three or four towers all return a bearing. In the back country that same 45 degrees from a 15- 30 mile grid to one tower is pretty crude. But, we tend to forget that things are differant out there. The same accuracy achieved downtown is expected on the hill. Verizon tried to beat the game by using phones that automatically switch power and mode. This worked sweet until other radio wave users needed more frequencies. The Fed choked the cell analog market as almost no one is using it any way. Economics wise new style towers will probably not arrive in the backcountry and who wants a tower (even if they are the camoflouflage type) every few miles anyway. For a quick and dirty this is still long enough but hopefully you can see where you are probably right cells are not likely to be reliable help in the backcountry and possibly not even in smaller rural. There are a couple projects on the boards for special market stuff but right now if you want reliable phone buy or rent Satellite.

Jens, You are still on with the Verizon. But Panther is correct as well. In the Digital/Analog struggle analog lost by federal declaration. There will be no more analog sold after Feb. 08. Some of the Analog tower gear will still work for a while. But it is all going away. Some of us are working on a next gen fix. The good part. Most carriers have completely switched to digital. Verizon still has some phones that are multi-function commonly called tri-mode. Even these if you are purchasing new you will need to argue for as they are being phased out. The science part. You sense a loss of power because of the brains of the phone. A tri-mode phone adjusts it's transmit mode and power output according to the level of signal that it is receiving. Most of the time this is fine as the incoming signal can be an indicator of output power required. Enter some guy who decided to wander up on to a mountain. They are high in the air and line of sight to a tower that is many miles away. Thus the phone sees a good clean signal. It automatically sets itself for digital and lower power. Now the phone does not have enough transmit to reach across those many miles. Most often this is seen and blown off as those moments when your phone tells you there is a new message but you can't call out to check. If you have a tri-mode give me a PM with make and model. I can help you to access the program menu. From here you can get to a diagnostic "force mode" that makes the phone transmit in Analog at it's highest available power. It works good but use with caution as the battery goes quick. Hope this helps.

I'm not too concerned with the lack of Santa hats. What confuses me is that the picture looks like Dave Schuldt got all cleaned up including a haircut for the party. Maybe it's just been a long time since I've seen em.