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I got on the rock a lot more this summer than last. Three tops were; 3. Took a small group of college newbies out. Three went along ond one of those is now hooked. 2. Did a few classes for a High school camp. Climbed some new rock. 12 kids went 4 are hooked. 1. The best was at the high school camp. A little off line from the 5.5 chimney the kids were doin some of them spotted a few bolts. They asked me how could you get to those? I tied into their top rope and started to show them a few fancy moves. Before I knew it I was at the top tellin them to lower. I was really stoked when I got out the guide and found that it was a .12a. Haven't done one of those in 4 or 5 years.

In comparing the 2 at the bookstore tonight I can't say that I noticed that big a difference (aside from some changed diagrams - that didn't really affect message). Why one vs. the other? I havn't seen it but I'm told that there is a bunch more in the 7th on Ice compared to the 6th.

The first booty I ever claimed was stupid. In 79 a buddy and I decided to climb Picacho Peak in Arizona. Mostly a scramble no help required. About 300 feet short of the summit we found a rope hung up in some bushes. About 30 feet south on the traverse was a crude via ferrata that took us all the way up if we wanted. I figured whoever lost that rope couldn't possibly of fallen on it.

Sphinx, You are right. A kilonewton is a measure of force. IE a method of measureing the energy that has been imparted to an object. If we were in an engineering forum I would get all those little details attended to before I published my remarks. The fact remains that it takes a measure of force to rupture each progressive stitching group or pull each nut. That force (the amount of energy imparted to cause 1 kilogram to accelerate at 1 metere per second per second=1n times approximatley 2000) is translated from one state to another in this process. Slowing the falling object while doing so.

Great quick and dirty Dru The energy is transformed in the stitching getting blown out. Load limiters are made so that only one set of stitches blows and this takes energy (2kn usually). If there is still enough left the next set goes same as the old bar tack style screamers. This keeps going until there isn't enough energy or no more screamer. The same happens in the nut scenerio your talkin about. If you set a series of sketchy nuts close enough you will pull some. The trick is to set them so that they use energy faster than you are makin it in the fall.

Yeh But DP is right , it might not hurt to give up on our trip and at least walk out with em. Sometimes they are ambulatory for a while then what.

Coop Your pretty close to right. All aluminum is soft and will tend to grab. The differant series tell us what the alloys are in the base metal. It is the temper (the " T-6" in 6061 T-6) that tells us how strong it should be. As a general rule 7000 series aluminum is stronger than 6000 series, but in some cases it corrodes more easily. If the man treats the metal right and you keep it clean 7000 takes more abuse. another bennie is that it will deform a little more before just plain givin up.

CBS I agree with the always climb organized concept. I do think that you are right that the newbie forum is the best place for this type question. I tend to be the fairly organized type. I did for a while climb with someone who liked to scamper up and organize at the swap. That worked for us only in as much as he climbed that way and even if I got there all set he still redid the whole package when I gave it to him. We don't climb together anymore but it worked for us when we did it. I think it's faster to hand off the whole lot all set (if your a sling kinda climber) work it out before the climb and go with what works. BTW with my previous partner it was faster to climb like mad and organize later, I think that was his reorganizing at the exchange not time saved in the climb

1/8 Aircraft Cable is a differant jargon for 1/8" 1x19 plowsteel cable. I've never seen it used in aircraft but understand that it was used for control surface stuff once upon a time.

r u for real? damn that's funny! its was U.S. slammer right? cause that would suck to be hooped in a mexican jail! Ya I'm real. It was US slammer. We got out by finding a local gear shop that had them in stock. We were taken in under border patrol escort and pointed at them on the shelf. They ran tests straight off the shelf and they matched so we walked. Nearly a full day of fun and games later

I use purification tablets. Funny story though to be aware of. In 78 a buddy and I spent a few weeks in Mexico just walkin and climbin. When we came back the border patrol found our halazone tablets that had got wet. The funny little white pills in the unmarked brown bottle tested positive for LSD,Amphetimines, and Barbituates. We told the man we used them to purify our water, he said" Ya right" We got out later after a day in the pound tryin to explain. If your gowin somewhere else keep the label on the bottle

That rock is unlike anything I've seen elsewhere (not that I have been to many places). It's blocky and the fracture lines are totally random. Some lines protect well and others are nightmarish. My guide book should have had the "death heads" of Viktor Kramar for some of the routes. Your right , I saw a flyer nailed to a tree about a new guide for that rock. It is blocky with random cracks. Most all of it is climable it just won't always get you anywhere. I am goin to track down the new guide and see what is already put up.

CBS I was there late last week. I am sure that your right. Were you on a short pitch a little east of the nose (i don't know if it has a name)? I was during a little diheidral and came across the crematory tag layin in a crack. I know of a couple deaths up there. Mostly local kids and the parents all like the ashes from the top thing. The rock is not high grade but it's good for a quicky. The routes I know of wern't sandbagged. I had a local point me at a .11 sport route on the north side but I didn't have time to check it out.

I was always the hiking, outdoorsy type. In the early 70's myself and friends used to spend weeks camping at the south end of Lake Dorthy. We used to get up each morning and toss a rock at the local topo, thats were we went that day. After a couple years we thought it would be easier to go some of the places if we could just climb to um. I took a class with the mounties and was pretty well hooked. I didn't get along with the mounties but not unusual as I'm kinda the antiestablishment type. This kept me in climbing since. I would much rather when I travel to foreign countries do something real than just say "I went to disney land in Japan" I'm still in it for the great times but cancer slowed me down a few years back. Now I'm going back to bigger rocks and longer days. Still havin a huge job and all keeps me from bein the every weekend type. Oh well climbin is where I'm at for the last 28 years, guess I don't care I'm not average.

1/8 aircraft cable isn't bad to cut. Most thieves don't carry the right stuff tho so it will slow them down a little. Any cable you cut can be tough if the strands are free to move. If you trap them with cable cutters or tape them up good and then cut through the tape it's not bad. I think it would work the first time then they may come back better equiped on a differant day. I think a revisit to an old trick would be better. A quick trip to a thrift shop for some old rags, a laundry basket, and a pretty nice knap sack. Then the valuables go in the stinky old laundry, and what ever goes in the sack which you put a padlock on. Every time (so far) the laundry gets left alone and the jackers run off with a bag full of shit. can you say" have a great day"

I'm not sure I buy into the micro fracture idea either. If the beiner took a free 60 m fall it may sutain damage. In the scene were looking at it's gunna fall at most 30m and that while towin a rope (for most of my raps, it could fall 40-50 if a guy went a pure 60m all overhung). If pullin the rope is even a bit dificult you may even have it in hand before it "falls". Lot softer landing that way.

I havn't Made a stupid climbing mistake yet (see post on Mantras), but many years ago a friend and I were climbing out at the city. One night after eatin we got talking that the sunset would be pretty cool from the top of that pinicle over there (I don't remember which one it was). We loaded our pockets with beer and I tied a lit coleman white gas lantern on the back belt loop and off we went. a few hours later it was dark the beer was gone and we sat up there sayin "that was pretty stupid" Just in case you wanna try, down climbing, no pro, with a lantern between your legs ain't were it's at

TLG I'm not sure where your comin from. I'm assuming B'ham. Chuckanut drive is easy to find a little before the Alaska ferry in Fairhaven. If your comin up from the south it is easier to get off just north of Burlington (next exit after Krispy Kremes new shop) then just head north on Chuckanut drive the rock will be on your right part way to B'ham, really easy to see on the north bound.

Lowell I think that your in the right era. My first real class on rock climbing was in 75 out at Camp Long. Mostly classroom and some time on that training rock of theirs. I can't remember who taught the class but the question was brought up as to, why can't we climb together tied up like a glacier traverse? The instructors reply was that on the international level some people were advocating a "running belay" but, it was not a safe practice and so they didn't reckognize it. It was many years later that I started to look at simulclimbing and saw it as the running belay that I was told wouldnt work

Just back from a week in north Idaho at a youth camp. I had an awsome time at Laclede rocks. Looks like it hasn't seen much action latley but still good. best part for me was time alone on some longer pitches than I've done for a few years. I really miss the longer climbs and that time a little less developed. Here's the challenge. A couple years back I had major surgery now I have to maintain a strict non-fat diet. (no fats, no oil, no cheese, no fat bearing foods) That kinda messes up my old climbing diet. I need to be carefull of this when I climb as fats directly become diarrhea with abundant gas . So this trip I took several packs of Goo. Any of you medical types know why I can't just make a complete diet of that for a few days? Anybody else have any other non-fat stuff they like? Really miss those longer climbs and want to get back.

Alpine I think your right in that. The park I mentioned cost us a fair amount. I think we spent a couple hundred thou. We got local companies to donate the excavation, the heavy equipment, sell us the concrete at cost, Lots of stuff that went into it. Now we have a first rate park that attracts people from all over the USA. (and Canada ) We pretty much put it on the skaters, either take care of it or lose it we are puttin up money and time first now it's in your lap. I think thats Daves whole point with the funds. Seattle is willin to put up the money if we will put up time and support. I would be alittle concerned about health workin out under the freeway but a free park is worth checkin out. I say

No doubt, the government dudes up here don't like us makin fun of um, but a bunch of us got a local school to donate some land and the community pitched in, no government allowed. We ended up building a million dollar (market value) skate park for the kids for $14,000 less than the state built a two stall bathroom for us to dump in.

Ya I'll track those down. I get one weekend comin up to go scout some stuff and then I'm spose to start showin 1st week of August. Thanks and I'm open to any other inputs. I find it funny that years ago I hated those goofy kid groups, now here I am teachin one. Life is bizarre.

Hi All I have been asked to introduce a High school camp to climbing in a few weeks. I am looking for a few good pitches in north Idaho, near Sand Point or Pend Oreille. It would be cool if it was something I could top rope with a few easier or harder routes. Anyone have any ideas beside the Shwitzer rocks.