shapp

More talk on Flagstone in the Moolack Thread, maybe it should be renamed Yin-Yang “flagstone is the only one of the two i've been to - wasn't impressed” This is a very strange opinion to me. Lets put aside the bolt placement issue for a moment and focus on the rock. I have visited a lot of crags in Oregon, and as far as the actual stone quality goes, Flagstone has to be up near the top, bullet and compact with interesting holds and features. I can’t really think of any other place in Oregon that is very similar rock type wise. It feels to the touch like a granite that lost its quartz. It is very similar in texture to the granite in Darrington. A lot of the routes are pretty unique, the Hydrotube, some of the Fralick’s routes, in position and climbing style. There aren’t a whole lot of friction slabs to be had in Oregon. And the steeper routes at flag aren’t the nubbin pulls at smith. There are a lot of underclings and such. On a side note, this is an interesting thread in that Flagstone and Moolack are being discussed together. They are not all that far off in actual distance from one another. In fact they are almost exactly 10.0 miles apart as the crow flies. And as far as development standards go, probably represent the absolute extreme for Oregon crags. Parts of Flagstone probably have more bolts per square foot than any other place in the state, will Moolack might represent the only no-bolt crag in the entire state. I can’t really think of any that have absolutely no belay bolts at all.

No offense taken, just another opportunity to whip it up . I am actually a pretty laid back dude, although excitable, loud and sometimes very obnoxious. I am always up for beer. This is a serious offer, Kenny, let me know when you might want to head back out that way if you need a partner. Shapp p.s. I wear a helmet, and I hang from bolts and cams, but usually not a #3 cause there is no way I would be falling out of a hand crack. However, I do not abide hanging from bolts placed right by bomber natural gear placements, in that I cannot budge.

I wasn't callinig you a "Troll", just using Atreides language. I recon clueless has a different defenition to the one I am accoustomed to, if it refers to someone that has climbed 80% of the pre-Tvedt routes at Flagstone, and that actually knows where Moolack is and has climbed there, or that has provided beta on a whole shit load of oregon crags to folks that have PMed me over the years inquiring about interesting shit that I happen to have a giant binder on, than I would resemble that comment. Thank-you to the TR-less Chief On calling me a moron, I may indeed resemble number 1 if you refer to such classicas as Dolt Tower, but I must take exception if you refer to #2, I maybe mildly retarded but at least have the social skills of a 13 year old (and can accurately read and follow a 7.5 minute topo): mo·ron (môrn, mr-) n. 1. A stupid person; a dolt. 2. Psychology A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive. Based on such slander and being that you are a PDXer, I can only assume you either pleasure your self while perusing the Bolf and Reuf guide or else have had some back-alley actual experience with one or both of them simultaneously? Not that I would care about your Reuf, Bolf, or goat leanings, but just curious of your motivation. Of course one should not rule out the possibility that Kenny's lost cam was left in some dark nether region of The TR-less Chiefs backside, and that he indeed likes it?

Hey Lostcam, I wasn't the potential Troll he was arguing with. Thanks for posting some great insights to the discussion? Have you climbed at either location?

You need nothing more than the drainages I listed. Get on map quest and topozone and you will find "easy" routes to drive then snow machine/ski to these areas. Watch weather underground and go when it is cold. You will see the ice. What more info is necessary? p.s. approach skis are needed for Strawberry and a snow machine wouldn't hurt either Rock Creek.

Pick a cold snap go to upper strawberry lake, can't be missed, pick a cold snap go up rock creek in the Elkhorns - can't be missed. Wait for somewhat extended cold snap in the Wallowa Valley and head up the Lostine River - look around can't be missed.

Thread Rezerection - Becky vs. Chouinard Becky would f*** chounaird with one of his own long dong pitons and steal his woman to boot!

Both, I think yin and yang

weather underground tells me the low last weekend was 27F on Sunday morning which is only -2.8 C

I saw some dude from California do the sickest full rope king swing off the hwy bridge over the crooked the summer of 1995 at 4 am in the morning. We were all going to do it till the first guy went. I nearly puked and shit myself symultaneously watching. Needless to say, he was the only one that did it. A 165 foot U-shaped loop from the middle of the bridge to the edge then he jumped and jugged back up the rope.

Last time I was at smith this spring it was 12F at night! now that was cold

Ha ha Hey Pow, did you ever check out the Quartzville Crag?

I don't support boneheads Idea of chopping routes at flagstone, but I am curious what people think about restoring at least the hydrotube to its original bolt count. Does anyone know who retroed it? I think the original bolt count added a lot, by that I mean a little brain control, to the experience. However, it was by no means dangerous. That being the question, I wouldn't go restoring it unless the FA party was actually POed at the retro. Thanks, Shapp

Sadly Moolacks days are numberd for climbing this year (too wet and snowy soon). You'll have to wait till next year. On another note. I think what happened to Flagstone is a pittyful excuse for new routing. However, I do not think that any of the over bolted BS routes should be chopped. On a face climb (i.e. no trad gear placements) it is up to the FA to determine bolt spacing. That doesn't mean we can't heckle the shit out of the Tvedts and call them out for it. But not the chop. However, I would be 100% in agreement with chopping the boltes that were added to all the routes, hydrotube, and others around to the right side, the bolts that were added several years after the FAs by who? I sure would like to know why more bolts were added to the tube, sometime after 1994. It was perfeclty safe although a little bit spicy when I first found a little scrap of info and found myself at flagstone in about 1993. Who ever did it man or woman-up and admit you have no shame. Shapp

I thought about commenting on the mouth p**sy but thought better of it! Looks like a bunch of criminals for sure I am taking a break from the tune and wax, munching on some pizza and, getting stoked for some turns this weekend!

Bolting: It is not in the wilderness area. However, please respect the ethic and style like the routes put up so far, now over 50 pitches. Use good natural gear placements where possible regardless if the pitch is mostly bolted or not. If you put up a route, please pm Hanman with details for the historical record. Thank you. Shapp Also bolting in the spring while naked is not recommended due to the massive amount of ticks that are present during that season.

I have been riding AT boots with plates since 1988 beotches and they work great! While I aint going to be doing any 520's I can free ride the backcountry like a mofo and lay down the arcs in bounds yo (on a non splitboard). I still break out the rosi-race for the Baked Slalom. Anyways, I am mostly on tele gear right now in the BC. Shapp

Bonnie Springs, Steven knows the old bar wench that gives free drinks, please give her and extra $20 for me due to my drunken failure to properly compensate her last time around.

I beileve the BD copy was a military surplus that Black Dome got a hold of a batch and sold back in the 1990s. I got one too.

and the photos of calendar butte, mind you it was wet that day, it actually isn't all that dirty compared to other first pitches I have scrubbed. I would be down for a trail/scrub fest in the not too distant future on a Monday hopefully

Calendar Butte is a fine crag. Hanman and I scoped it after I talked to Rod a couple years ago about particulars. Too much distraction with Spring Mt. and such, has precluded our effort to go scrub a significanlty smaller crag. However, if the direct approach trail was re-established, the routes re-cleaned and trafficed on a more regular basis, it would be a great spot. There is trad and sport up to 2 pitches. There is actually some pretty badass looking cracks there (my particular area of interest). I will post some photos tonight. Also notice this is my 666 post, I am feeling a bit apocolyptic right now.

All I am saying is that if the guy goes to Calendar butte, he should think twice about adding any additional bolts cause chances are that line was already climbed. Rod has all the known routes documented in a topo book, so you can tell where all the lines were established. I have seen the book and there were quite a few routes put up. But walking around the base of the crag now, you would harldly know it.

yes, but he has the "big green book"

I have been to the area, and the wall in question is a hunk of shit. If you have bolts/hangers itching to burn, send me a PM. Calendar Butte a short walk further is way better. However, you might want to get in touch with Rod Fox before adding any routes to Calendar, as you might actually be looking at a previously done line that has fallen into obscurity.

I would rather wait longer and pay more for the guide to be published by some one other than falcon. I have too many of their other F-ed up guides and have promised myself never to buy another one of their POS books. Mybe Alan can overcome Falcon's total apparent lack of editing ability, and make it work though? I hope so because I am sure he put a lot of work into it.